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Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

Teacher training in the private sector?

16 replies

Giraffesdotty · 24/02/2023 20:38

My step daughter is interested in becoming a teacher but is adamant she wants to avoid the state sector, having been privately educated herself. Are there training schemes available which are equivalent to a PGCE? And would she end up with QTS?

OP posts:
Fifthtimelucky · 24/02/2023 21:09

She should do her teacher training and then apply for a job in a private school, but during her training she will have to work in state schools.

Alternatively, as independent schools don't need to employ teachers with QTS she could just apply to one.

Do you know why she is so keen to avoid state schools? She might find she actually enjoys it if she tries one. My daughter is in her first year as a qualified teacher. She was educated privately from the age of 11 and is extremely happy working in a state secondary school.

Margo34 · 24/02/2023 21:17

A PGCE is one route into teaching.

Unqualified teaching is another - independent schools can employ unqualified teaching staff, state schools can't.

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/train-to-be-a-teacher

modgepodge · 24/02/2023 21:30

I work in a prep. We had a TA who trained as a teacher, whilst working with us. I don’t know what qualification it was but he is definitely now qualified. I think he might only be qualified to work in private schools but I could be wrong. I think it was maybe called iPGCE? It was mostly ‘on the job’ training with some days at uni.

Giraffesdotty · 24/02/2023 21:53

I think she is trying to avoid the discipline problems she is likely to encounter at a state school. She can also keen to get involved with lots of extra curricular activities such as sport and drama which private schools tend to have more of. Also the longer holidays are an advantage. Does anyone know how the salary compares?

OP posts:
LoveQuinnOhDearyMe · 24/02/2023 22:00

Private schools don’t have to hire qualified teachers but many don’t like to hire unqualified (unless it’s a money saver). Let’s face it, parents pay thousands a term and, like in state, are generally more demanding than they ever have been, I know many around me don’t make a habit of it these days.

To be honest, for her sake in the long term, it would be better to gain her QTs. Better pension scheme, better prospects, ability to move up the pay scale. A school could promise her the normal pay and conditions of a qualified teacher when she’s unqualified, but it only takes a new Head to overturn that.

I recommend you look up Teaching Apprenticeship as well as PGCE - I did the Apprenticeship at the prep school I work in. First off it saves you £9k. You have a small fee to pay. However I will add that I was a TA at my school first before they encouraged me to do the apprenticeship. Your role needs to be secured for this and I was paid as an Unqualified Teacher whilst I gained my QTS, so I’m not sure how it would work for your DD, I don’t know if schools really advertise for teacher apprentices. A PGCE may be easier to get if she isn’t working in a school already.

She 99% absolutely will not be able to avoid the state sector in training, and I leave the 1% because there’s always a chance I missed a trick, but when I was searching for a provider, the key was always two placement schools on one year training, and any provider that allowed you to train in an independent school required you also spent time in a “contrasting” school. That meant state. Your DD will need to realise this. I had to do a 6 week placement in a state school in my QTS year, so half a term.

So her options are:

Apply for a standard PGCE - accept that her placements will likely be state, it’s an unpaid year, she can then apply only for jobs in the private sector if she wishes and need never step foot in a state school again.

Keep an eye on school websites, job websites for independent school teaching jobs that don’t require QTS. She may get lucky and may well be able to get in this way, and stay as an unqualified through her career. If she want to then get QTS, she will have to do some state school time.

Unless…..she has a degree, gets a job as an unqualified teacher, then after two years as a sole class teacher she may qualify for Assessment Only route which is a 3 month fast track QTS that only needs to be carried out at her school. She will, however, have to demonstrate enough experience across the board and lack of state school exposure could, or could not, mean she isn’t taken on this route.

If she has no degree yet, a degree in Primary Education will give her the QTS with her degree. Again, placements will most likely be state but she is free to do her ECT years in the independent sector.

Private schools often advertise for gap students, this is also quite a good way in if she really applies herself and communicates her desire to climb the leader to teaching.

I will say…..I’ve worked in both (state only as a TA though) - several teacher colleagues have only worked in independent and there is a difference I see between them and those who have taught in the state sector too. My personal thoughts are that my colleagues who have taught in both are that bit more resilient, that little bit more patient, their eyes are open a bit wider and they’re just a bit more realistic. Our class sizes have been growing recently which is great, but some teachers have absolutely flipped over having a class of 18. Huge to some, minute to those who have dealt with 30 plus. Likewise additional needs etc, unless you’re somewhere like West London, the private sector isn’t generally as oversubscribed as it once was and many schools can’t afford to be as “choosy” when it comes to pupils. My class of 17 has both extreme ends of the academic scale, an autistic child, a child showing signs of dyslexia, a couple of behavioural issues that take a lot of work, a possible ADHD case. Some of my colleagues are very used to a time when preps were more affordable to the average middle class family, meaning schools could cherry pick. Way less schools do this now. Nor do they have a bottomless pit of cash despite the fees. I think time in the state sector is very good for professional development and I know it’s a sad state of affairs right now.

Best of luck to her finding her path

LoveQuinnOhDearyMe · 24/02/2023 22:07

What I didn’t say too well in my last paragraph - just be aware, private schools are not immune to behavioural issues. I’ve still dealt with children jumping on tables and throwing chairs and answering back. Yes I am fully aware there’s less of it, that’s true, buts it not a clean sweep. Children of the wealthy can also be badly behaved and rude and completely unaware of how fortunate they are in many ways and that can bring its own problems.

My school is amazing tho and so is my senior leadership team. A lot of teaching life is based on your SLT and how they treat you, that’s what your step daughter needs to look for in a school.

Giraffesdotty · 24/02/2023 22:09

Thanks very much for all the info - I will pass it on. My DSD says she has found a school which will train her over 2 years, after which she will have QTS. Does that sound OK? I don't want her to limit her options at the start of her career.

OP posts:
LoveQuinnOhDearyMe · 24/02/2023 22:10

I keep pressing the button too soon! Salary will vary school to school. My school is pretty much inline with the main teacher scale.

The clubs are great,a lot of work but it’s great she wants to get involved. I really enjoy having time with other year groups. My clubS sometimes takes more of my time than my class!

Giraffesdotty · 24/02/2023 22:20

What subject do you teach? DSD will be applying to be a biology teacher, but I'm guessing some courses are more time consuming than others.

OP posts:
LoveQuinnOhDearyMe · 24/02/2023 22:22

@Giraffesdotty that sounds good, if she’s getting QTS at the end, I’m assuming it’s not Early Years Teacher Status and it’s normal QTS (I on,y ask because Early years teacher status is dismissed by a lot of settings these days).

Im assuming she’s therefore employed as she gains her qualification and therefore getting paid? Result!

Does she already have a degree?

What she needs to check is the provider of the QTS (because it will be a university or training company, it doesn’t just come from the school) and find out if she needs to pay anything or if the school will fund it, and if she is required to spend time in a second setting which is very likely and if she has to sort that herself.

It will be a very heavy work load two years, but if she can get through that I, sure she will flourish. Any school would be pleased to have someone ready to throw themselves into school life.

I sometimes feel like I’m drowning in work but my class are my babies, I want them to fly! Even the one who answers me back all day every day but hugs me when they leave. Deary me.

LoveQuinnOhDearyMe · 24/02/2023 22:23

Giraffesdotty · 24/02/2023 22:20

What subject do you teach? DSD will be applying to be a biology teacher, but I'm guessing some courses are more time consuming than others.

I’m primary so I teach all! From my secondary school teaching friends, the bonus to secondary is more structured timetable means free periods set in place and training years are normally a reduced timetable.

Changechangechanging · 25/02/2023 14:00

I would say, as a teacher who ended up in an independent through a supply contract and just never left, it would never have occurred to me to apply to one of the local independents. I would have assumed that they would be inundated with applications and that as a bog standard teacher who was state educated, I had little to bring to the table.

At some level, I wasn’t wrong. In hiring, I would say there is bias towards hiring adults who were themselves educated in independents or who have worked in independents or the international sector. But education is experiencing a huge crisis at the current time and parents are picky and absolutely vote with their feet if not satisfied. My school will categorically not make an appointment if there is no QTS for an experienced teacher. It will accept and support ECTs and as we are part of a wider group that also includes state schools, we also do on the job training that leads to QTS. In my opinion, our parents wouldn’t accept unqualified teachers working with their children in any other circumstance that they are working towards QTS. Frankly,mit’s the least they should both expect and demand.

Pondweed · 25/02/2023 21:20

Something to keep in mind is that a lot of independent schools are saving money by coming out of the teacher's pension scheme. We've recently appointed a couple of new experienced members of staff leaving their independent schools for this reason. So while independent schools may pay as much or more than state if they are not part of the pension scheme you're in effect being paid less.

dootball · 26/02/2023 18:09

It's also worth bearing in mind that you may find that independent schools have far less CPD / training sessions and support than a state school as it's generally assumed everyone is a pretty good teacher already.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 27/02/2023 07:14

There might be routes she could potentially use to qualify in the private sector and gain QTS. Unless she can find a local private school that offers a schools direct route in conjunction with other private schools, these routes would not give her a pgce, which ironically might lower her employability in the private sector.

She could also work as an unqualified teacher, and eventually qualify via the assessment only route, but she would usually need experience of two schools for this. Unqualified teachers are often not paid well.

When she finishes her training year, she may find it difficult to find a private school to take her as an ECT unless she offers a specific subject they are desperate for or she has a specific skill (to a high level) which she needs.

The sorts of private she will work in early career may not have great behaviour or extra curricular offers. Not all are equal.

If she definitely wants to work in a private school, why not look at pastoral roles like being a housemistress etc?

If she wants to teach, I'd strongly suggest she sucks it up for a year and gets a pgce from a well known uni in a subject that's in high demand. This, plus strong extra curricular skills may enable her to get a private job straight away, or else she could probably transition to private after her ECT.

There are state schools btw, which offer everything she wants except paying students.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 27/02/2023 07:17

Giraffesdotty · 24/02/2023 22:20

What subject do you teach? DSD will be applying to be a biology teacher, but I'm guessing some courses are more time consuming than others.

To some extent you're guessing wrong, most subjects are equally demanding.

However, science courses are often more demanding than some others because you're often expected to learn to teach outside your science specialism as well.

I would say if she can become confident teaching chemistry and especially physics, that would increase her desirability to a private school. The people I know who were able to get private jobs straight after the pgce were all physics teachers.

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