Move from secondary to primary

[silverpinecones]

So I definitely do know that the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side but just wondering if anyone has any experience of moving from secondary to primary? How to do it? Any courses that might be useful? That sort of thing. My experience is humanities type subject and PSHE. 10 years now.

I know that I am technically qualified to teach in primary but at the moment wouldn't feel like I knew what I was doing as haven't had experiences of other subjects or the curriculum as a whole.

Any other thoughts, pros, cons - all welcome. Thanks!

Hiya,

I can’t offer advice as such but am in a similar position in terms of moving to teaching a younger age group.

I’m currently a secondary teacher but starting a job in a middle school (Y5-8) at Easter. I know there aren’t many around but if that’s an option then it might be one to consider.

I can’t imagine there’d be any harm in putting yourself out there and applying for some primary jobs to see if they’ll take you on as you are.

Best of luck!

Hopefully others on here can contribute more in the way of practical advice.

Keep us posted 😊

Thanks, I had considered middle schools or something like and independent prep school but kinda feel like I would be living a lie!! What kind of things did they ask in your interview? And what prompted the move? (If you don't mind me asking?)

Will PM you shortly 😊

I did 8 years secondary, 6 years primary and have gone back to secondary.

It is in NO WAY easier and it fairly broke me. Going back to secondary has been a great relief.

Behavior is not easier to manage. This is because you will have a lot more SEND and EBD students who will not yet have ECHPs and 99%of them won't go to special ed until year 7. In my last year 6 class I had 34 kids and 7 of them were SEND. All of them working at year 2 or below. Without a class TA because it is VERY rare to have one now. And i've had year 6's call me a cunt and attack me with a chair.

Progress is far more scrutinised because the cohorts are so small. Once SEND are discounted, every child counts and you will be expected to do before and after school interventions to make them hit targets for no extra pay.

Whilst the children can be delightful there is less joy in the curriculum than there was and the days of topic learning are gone. You can expect maths, english and more of the same.

You will have to lead a subject without a TLR. Budgets are far more screwed than secondary so don't expect UPS. I have found primaries are less unionised and far more likely to expect crazy working hours. I used to get in at 7.30 and be the last one in. You will have to prepare the work for the cover in your ppa time. Leadership is insane and I found it bonkers scrutiny wise. And the marking is uttterly crackers. Every book, every night.

And you see a LOT more of parents. You can be nabbed in the playground. And it's your fault they lost their jumper.

And I never had a lunch that wasn't taken up by sorting out arguments, social media (it starts in year 5 or before!) or fights.

I find my marking load much more reasonable now and the school I am in is unionised- meetings don't run over and nobody gets in stupidly early or stays stupidly late. And the behaviour is actually better because there are sanctions- something lacking in my primary experience. Not that it's perfect- far from it! All I know is i've got my weekend back a bit and am less scrutinised.

In terms of how to swap- just turn up! There are such big staff shortages that as long as you are willing to learn they'll have you. I'd look at the ks1 and ks2 sats and get up to speed plus if you can ask to shadow a primary teacher for a day. My secondary is all through and a couple of teachers do year 5-8 maths.

From what I've seen primary is definitely harder. The kids might be smaller but they're so less independent. Dealing with my 10 year old daughters drama is bad enough cannot imagine that x30. Then the displays! They're like works of art and they change every term! The provision for SEN really isn't there so basically the class teacher has to manage all of it. I seriously can't think why you would want to do it.

Thanks guys, this is all good to know. I am definitely aware that it's not easier but sounds like there are things to think about eg the undiagnosed SEND difficulties and the problems that come with that. I was always going to do primary and changed at the last minute to secondary before I trained so feel like I have been here before with the what ifs.

At the moment with a 5 year old and a 2 year old I am actually feeling drawn to early years, but I do remember the frustrations of when I used to volunteer in reception when I was at university of the petty problems and frustrations. However after a full day of teaching KS3 I often feel very rubbish about it all, and feel I am craving the sense of community that primary schools often have. My mum was a primary teacher too but she mainly just did the music for most of my life so has long been out of the day to day stuff.

I did it! 10 years secondary and now in my 9th year of primary. Personally, I prefer the little ones as I find them easier to manage and they just adore you back rather than give you a mouthful of backchat/verbal abuse. But I'm not a full time class teacher which makes all the different imho.

Pros:
Mostly lovely kids that want to listen, learn and please you.
Level of learning low, so not too taxing on the brain.
No exams to work towards, depending on which year group you teach.
More part time friendly.

Cons:
The neediness and demanding nature of little ones. Whining.
The physical fatigue rather than mental fatigue.
Low level of learning means you don't get to use your expert subject knowledge.

Hth.

I’m not sure where you are based but it’s far more competitive to get a primary job where I live compared to secondary. You could be one of 200 applicants and if you have 10 years of experience already I’m assuming that you are UPS. I think you have to be prepared for a lot of competition from younger, cheaper teachers who will have had up to date training on recent primary initiatives.

Interesting. Not the picture where I am, absolute shortage of good teachers. Schools having to advertise repeatedly, no supply to cover the gap when someone leaves, schools desperate to fill posts.

Really? That’s only the case here for secondary shortage subjects. I know of several people who trained in primary but were unable to get jobs in 5 years post qualifying so had to give up. The supply situation here is more that schools won’t pay the money and make teachers or TAs cover for absent colleagues in their PPA time.

I'm in the East of England. They still haven't filled my old year 6 job from last year. Primaries here will literally take anyone who is breathing and cheap. Some jobs don't even have any applicants.

@Meredusoleil thanks that is a really helpful pros and cons list, and actually kind of similar to what I was thinking so it's good to know I am not totally wrong with what to expect there. I think I would probably find it easier to get a job in juniors as it's closer to secondary but actually feeling more drawn to the idea of infants.

Another big con of primary for me compared with secondary though is if you have a difficult class you're stuck with them ALL the time, whereas in secondary I only see them a couple of hours a week. However on the other hand you have more time to work on those problems in primary and I guess find a way to connect with the children?!

Oh and I'm also in the East. I think the best way to dip my toe in would really be to get a job as a TA or something but definitely can't afford to take a pay cut to that!

Interesting comments about the TLR/UPS thing though, I do have both of those so guess I might have to be prepared to sacrifice them too it sounds like?

Regarding TLRs, there isn't a single staff member in our primary who has one. There's a SENCO on the SENCO allowance and a deputy on the leadership scale but otherwise nothing, nor can I ever see that there will be.

Possibly the TLR, but you should be able to find a UPS position somewhere.

In my school, we have middle managers that are TLR holders.

Also agree with you about having the same class all day every day being a con. I much prefer the variety of seing different classes every day. Hence why I would never be a class teacher!

@Meredusoleil are you able to say what type of role do you have? Are there still positions like PPA cover person where you deliver all of the music/RE/PSHE type thing in primary schools? I know this used to be a thing. But all the music teachers I know who had that type of gig were replaced by bought in schemes when they retired delivered essentially by the computer I think!

@petitescience sorry I haven't been able to look at my PMs yet, I'm not ignoring you if you did - I just use the app and am still trying to get into my main account ha

Yes that's exactly what I do. But you are right, it is a dying breed as far as positions go, as some schools now use HLTAs for cover, which obviously costs them less money!

No worries! We are busy people! 😊

@Meredusoleil interesting, this is actually where I think I could potentially transfer my skills best. Worth keeping an eye out then!

What is your subject specialist area in secondary? Definitely worth keeping an eye on the job market!

RE and PSHE. From a family of music teachers though so although I haven't taught it I have a very good idea of what it looks like in primary

Ime, RE and Music have come up as PPA subjects in jobs I have seen. I teach them myself too (among other subjects of course). I haven't seen PSHE but it's still possible to find.

Hey, I’m just wondering if you had much luck with this? I’m very much wanting to make the move but unsure how to!

Workload in Primary is way worse than in secondary. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole to be honest! Primary schools also seem to have much weaker Union's, which might be why their pay and conditions are so much worse than secondary teachers'.