Page 2 | NASUWT only 42% voted

bridgetjonesmassivepants · 2023-01-12T17:19:59+00:00

Can't believe this. Apparently 90% of those who voted voted to strike but the union can't go ahead with strike action as a 50% threshold is needed. Why wouldn't you vote? I can understand we will all have different views but if the current situation isn't enough to make you vote what is? Do we now have to hope that the other unions will do better?

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 16/01/2023 23:09

OutDamnedSpot · 15/01/2023 18:30

@Noname99 - I asked the union similar. Can’t we strike about abysmal SEN provision, about conditions for support staff, etc? Do we really have to use that whiney video about teachers’ pay? I was told we can only strike about pay, so this was the only way to open that dialogue.

I agree the video isn't great, but striking for support staff would be viewed as a sympathy strike and is therefore illegal.

I'm not sure how you would strike over SEN provision but make it about your pay or conditions?

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 16/01/2023 23:16

Noname99 · 15/01/2023 15:20

I’m in a leadership position in a Trust in a very unionised area of the country. I meet with all union reps of our schools monthly as part of my role. The vast majority of staff are NEU rather NASUWT but when discussing the strike they tell me that majority of the staff in our Trust are not going to vote. (They are aware that not sending ballot back is the most likely way to stop a strike rather than a no vote.) They say that staff are not supportive of strike because it’s about pay which they either feels is ok or feel that even if it’s not ok, any pay rise will end up coming from existing funds and will therefore mean redundancies for their colleagues and less money for resources the children.

The problem as I see is it is that the issues that make teachers want to leave are pupil behaviour (often linked to utter collapse of social services and other community and youth services), parent behaviour (as above plus just utter shit parents who want the school to fix everything they’re unable or too lazy to fix) & workload & impossible expectation (usually linked to above plus SLT fear of ofsted which drives toxic behaviour) and the woeful provision for children with SEND. That’s what they want to strike about.

But apparently you can’t strike about these things ….I’m not sure why as it would seem to come under “conditions” to me but apparently that is what the union ‘on high’ have told them. 🤷‍♀️

Another point made was that they felt that if the govt did shift a bit and give a higher % pay rise it would just mean that these “real” issues as they see them (& I totally agree btw) would then be swept under the carpet with the rhetoric being that the higher pay now means that staff have to put up with this.

That’s just what has been discussed with to me but I thought it was interesting and probably more helpful than just accusing colleagues of being lazy /apathetic.

FWIW I agree there are issues within the union and how these messages are being shared. But not returning ballots just weakens the position of teachers in general, and if they don't strike, they will be further weakening our position.

But the NEU are clear any pay rise must be fully funded- that is at the core of their message.

There is possible mileage in striking over the abuse teachers face from students and parents, that is definitely working conditions. I don't know what outcome we would be pushing for? Ultimately, it would come down to more exclusions for students, I think- which is something the NEU is, or was, ideologically against, and a lot of teachers would be uncomfortable with.

I don't know what the solution would be for parents- to strike over it, it has to be something concrete.

SEND support is really difficult. Striking on behalf of support staff unfortunately is illegal, and I can't see how we would get better SEND provision without improving things for support staff.

Pay is a clear thing, which is easy(ish) for the union to organise a strike over. I think a lot of people aren't aware of the laws around strike (and action short of a strike) action. It is difficult for unions.

But I do agree the messaging could be better.

noblegiraffe · 16/01/2023 23:23

There is possible mileage in striking over the abuse teachers face from students and parents, that is definitely working conditions.

But not all teachers face abuse from students or parents so it isn't a national issue.

Teachers can certainly take local action, e.g. refusing to teach a particular pupil who assaults teachers, or take school action against management who doesn't protect them from abuse.

GracieLouFreeebush · 17/01/2023 15:18

I asked for a ballot paper 4 times. Finally got one through the post the day after the ballot closed. My address was correct, I even asked if I could collect one from somewhere

noblegiraffe · 17/01/2023 15:19

That’s bloody annoying. Hopefully the reballot will be better organised.

GracieLouFreeebush · 17/01/2023 15:25

noblegiraffe · 17/01/2023 15:19

That’s bloody annoying. Hopefully the reballot will be better organised.

No idea if it kept going missing as a result
of the postal strikes or if it wasn’t being sent.

Will they reballot NAS? I’ve not had chance to even look to find out

Margo34 · 17/01/2023 16:46

GracieLouFreeebush · 17/01/2023 15:25

No idea if it kept going missing as a result
of the postal strikes or if it wasn’t being sent.

Will they reballot NAS? I’ve not had chance to even look to find out

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www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/nasuwt-remains-in-dispute-with-ministers-over-pay.html

Right at the end:

"...announcing plans shortly for further balloting of members."

(Released yesterday).

Porlocks · 17/01/2023 21:53

Can anybody tell me what the green / white ballot issue was with NASUWT, please? I'm probably being stupid, but I'm not sure what it means.

I got two separate ballot slips for NAS, weeks apart, for some reason. I know many people who didn't get one at all.

I'm so undecided about whether to switch to the NEU now. I have always found the support from NASUWT really good when I've needed them, but I feel really strongly about the need to strike.

noblegiraffe · 17/01/2023 21:56

I got a white ballot, then a couple of weeks later got another ballot that looked identical but was on green paper.

Apparently the one that counted was the green one, even if the first white one had been posted.

Some people missed the message and binned the green one thinking they'd already voted.

Porlocks · 17/01/2023 22:01

@noblegiraffe Thank you. I got two and posted them both back, but I can't remember what colour they were. That seems like a cock up though, surely? I'm really disappointed with the way it's been handled.

I wonder if there has been much of an exodus from NASUWT since yesterday.

noblegiraffe · 17/01/2023 22:05

I remember at the time thinking that when I got my green paper it had the potential to screw the ballot with people not returning the second paper.

Not sure how many people it affected.

Margo34 · 17/01/2023 22:06

noblegiraffe · 17/01/2023 21:56

I got a white ballot, then a couple of weeks later got another ballot that looked identical but was on green paper.

Apparently the one that counted was the green one, even if the first white one had been posted.

Some people missed the message and binned the green one thinking they'd already voted.

I only received a white ballot! Gahhh!

noblegiraffe · 17/01/2023 22:08

No, I think if you only received a white ballot you were good. I think there was some issue with some original ballots which means green replacement ones were issued. No idea what the problem was, they said 'admin error'.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 17/01/2023 22:29

I hope NASUWT are able to reballot- it sounds like things went wrong during the ballot, and it's a real shame if people's votes have not been properly counted.

OutDamnedSpot · 17/01/2023 22:56

Oh? I knew nothing about the white / green thing, but I think I returned a white one.

noblegiraffe · 17/01/2023 23:14

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 17/01/2023 22:29

I hope NASUWT are able to reballot- it sounds like things went wrong during the ballot, and it's a real shame if people's votes have not been properly counted.

If loads of NAS members who want to strike defect to the NEU, not sure where that would leave an NAS ballot's chance of success.

So pissed off.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 18/01/2023 07:12

noblegiraffe · 17/01/2023 23:14

If loads of NAS members who want to strike defect to the NEU, not sure where that would leave an NAS ballot's chance of success.

So pissed off.

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I mean, it depends if they stay a member of NAS though too, right?

I get why it puts the union in a difficult position, but on the other hand people obviously feel very strongly about being able to strike.

WeAreAllLionesses · 19/01/2023 19:53

Those of you who may wish to join the NEu instead of or as well as your current union, or if you're not in a union and would like to join can do so here

If you join before 1st Feb you can strike as an NEU member (you can strike as a non NEU member also).

noblegiraffe · 19/01/2023 21:16

If you are NAS and not NEU, you cannot strike with NEU as you are not a non-union member, you are a member of a different, non-striking unions.

pinkyponkyplink · 21/01/2023 06:31

Is anyone else in the position I am? Only two of us in nas. Rest of school neu and striking. Been told by neu members that we can switch to neu. Made to feel like I need to switch but I've always found nas great. My experience with neu was useless

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 21/01/2023 07:59

pinkyponkyplink · 21/01/2023 06:31

Is anyone else in the position I am? Only two of us in nas. Rest of school neu and striking. Been told by neu members that we can switch to neu. Made to feel like I need to switch but I've always found nas great. My experience with neu was useless

You can be a member of both. Obviously you don't have to switch, but in general I find being a member of the majority union can have advantages. What's your school NEU rep like? In my experience I find having a good rep in school is the most important thing.

Obviously if you don't want to join, you don't have to. I'm assuming your school is going to close regardless?

TheMoth · 21/01/2023 10:37

WeAreAllLionesses · 19/01/2023 19:53

Those of you who may wish to join the NEu instead of or as well as your current union, or if you're not in a union and would like to join can do so here

If you join before 1st Feb you can strike as an NEU member (you can strike as a non NEU member also).

Is that definite? I was told that I can't switch and strike, as I didn't vote in the neu ballot. I would like to switch, because it feels wrong not going out on strike with colleagues.

WeAreAllLionesses · 21/01/2023 11:09

TheMoth · 21/01/2023 10:37

Is that definite? I was told that I can't switch and strike, as I didn't vote in the neu ballot. I would like to switch, because it feels wrong not going out on strike with colleagues.

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Yes, that is definite. A number at my school have done joined simply to strike - the NEU has gained well over 10k members this week and I am guessing many are from the NASUWT.

Pm me if you need more info.

WeAreAllLionesses · 21/01/2023 11:10

@themoth probably more to the point is who told you that you can't change unions and strike? Hopefully not your NASUWT rep...

TheMoth · 21/01/2023 11:19

WeAreAllLionesses · 21/01/2023 11:09

Yes, that is definite. A number at my school have done joined simply to strike - the NEU has gained well over 10k members this week and I am guessing many are from the NASUWT.

Pm me if you need more info.

Show quote history

I think this is going to be disastrous for the NAS, tbh.
I've been NAS my whole working life. Feels disloyal to switch, especially as they're at great pains to tell us that they're going to re ballot etc, but equally, I feel powerless watching another union do all the work.