Student teacher combative/not listening

[Confusedteacher123]

Hi all,
I wonder if anyone has any advice. I’m an experienced mentor but have never come across a student quite like the one I have this term. He is very academic and has some great qualities but his classroom management is pretty weak.

I gave him targets last week to work on his presence in the classroom and some tips to improve, starting with the lesson opening.
He’s improved slightly today but still doesn’t acknowledge students as they come into the class, reading over his notes and Prezi presentation instead of directing them to activities. When I brought this up today and reminded him that this is a target he should be working on(informally), he became very defensive, accusing me of picking on him for ‘unimportant’ issues as he doesn’t see that greeting students is at all important, he doesn’t want to wish them good morning, he just wants to get on with the learning. The problem is, a number of them were sitting there without their books in front of them 10 minutes into the lesson because he hadn’t looked at them to notice.

I tried to emphasise that it’s important for the teacher to be observant, judge the mood of the pupils coming in to combat any potential issues, safeguarding check, get them settled, etc. but he just kept saying that he doesn’t think this is important. I feel like I’m banging my head against a brick wall. How can anyone think classroom management doesn’t matter!? Any tips? I’m worried he’s going to really struggle in a more challenging school.

I think you need to talk to his University tutor.
You are there, putting in your time to try to help / support and he is refusing to put any of it in to practice.
Students sitting there doing nothing, 10mins in to a lesson is not good enough. He needs to know that and needs to know that TP is not something just 'to attend' it is for learning, but it is also for assessment, and can be failed.

Thanks for your reply and I’m glad to see that I wasn’t being unreasonable. It really wasn’t good enough.

It’s the defensive attitude that rubbed me up the wrong way- insinuating that I’m picking up on insignificant issues which, in reality, are really important! I’ve never had a student react in a way that essentially suggested he doesn’t value my opinion at all. He tried to make an excuse for everything- it was so frustrating!

I said I’d take on a student as a favour to the senior mentor this year (wasn’t going to do it this year as it impacts my workload so much) and he’s been hard work! Good advice to contact the uni tutor, I think I’ll speak to the school’s senior mentor just to get his backing with it all too. Maybe he could do a session on the importance of classroom management 😅

You say he's academic - would he respond well to you signposting him to research about the importance of relationships in teaching? There's a paper by Lochran (I can look up the citation for you if you want) that includes the statement: 'Teaching is a relationship.' That would then open up a conversation with him about how to build relationships with pupils ie look at them and say hello...

I think he is better suited to be a lecturer at a university then to teach and care for kids, you defo should speak to his university mentor and bring it up, maybe give him some observations so he can see the difference it makes to the lesson

Does your provider have a cause for concern system? I would use that to make it more formal and force him to take action.

All good advice- thank you. He called in sick today so I couldn’t track any progress (fourth absence this placement). That has cemented in my mind that this has to escalate beyond me now.

Great advice and suggestion on the paper, @toomuchicecream I’ll look it up and refer him to it (if he returns!)

Yes @MrsHamlet there is a cause for concern through the uni provider - my senior mentor keeps dodging me, which isn’t helpful, so I need to seek him out tomorrow to get the ball rolling. I’ve had two full days, mock exams, and cover for staff sickness so I haven’t been able to physically go and find him but I have a PPA tomorrow and will make it my mission!

Never again am I doing the senior mentor a favour!

@Confusedteacher123 I am the senior mentor in my school. I would suggest writing a very clear email and sending it to the senior mentor referring to the cause for concern process. If I got that email, I'd be seeking you out rather than you needing to seek me out!!
good luck

Thanks @MrsHamlet I will do that this evening.

I had a trainee like this about ten years ago. She was academically brilliant but totally lacked presence in the classroom and seemed to actively avoid speaking to pupils. After giving the same feedback several times (along with advice: have the work on the board and welcome them at the door; or circulate the room handing out worksheets and welcoming pupils), I timed her. It took over 12 minutes for her to even attempt
to speak to a child. I raised it again. She reported me for bullying and said she wouldn’t work in my classes again 🤦🏻‍♀️

I bet you were sad about that @OutDamnedSpot 🤣

Absolutely heartbroken. The pupils were gutted.

Please someone remind me why I've agreed to have a bunch of trainees next term...

I'm not saying this is what's happening but I want to share my experience when I was training because some of this sounds similar.

So, when I was a trainee, my "presence" was criticised a lot (only on one placement), and some of these criticisms felt really, really personal. In retrospect, my behaviour management was the weakest aspect of my practice but I wasn't being given useful strategies to follow (in part because the school didn't have an effective behaviour system)- instead I was being told to behave in a way that came very unnaturally to me, and I was struggling to sustain.

I still don't think "presence" is a useful word to use with beginning teachers, because it's not always clear what this means.

I totally get being pushed into the mentor role, and obviously it's up to you how much you want to invest in this trainee BUT I do think it's worth having another conversation with him about the issues.

I'd lay it out very clearly:

1. He wants students to get on with learning, but this isn't happening and he isn't spotting it.
2. Having a good routine for the start of lessons is essential for a quick start to learning.
3. He can't build this if he's re-reading slides/notes. He needs to be familiar with these before the lesson (is this nerves?).

Is greeting students on the door a whole school expectation? It's not something I've ever found has worked for me, so could he try a different strategy?

E.G. a do now on the board, all books out and ready for students, and expectation the students do the "do now" in silence (he'll need to sanction to maintain the silence, probably). He registers, gives then 2-3 more minutes to finish, then cold calls students to ensure they've completed the do now? And then starts the lesson proper, obviously.

I get this may not work at your school, or may not be your policy- in which case he has to accept "X is school policy, you have to do this". And he does also need to take feedback on board, and at least attempt it- but if you think he's worth investing in, is it worth at least giving him another option?

This sounds incredibly familiar! @OutDamnedSpot

Thanks @Postapocalypticcowgirl - that’s definitely very helpful and it’s useful to have a different perspective. I suppose I’ve never really thought about how subjective ‘presence’ is so will try to reframe it.

Your strategy and response is gratefully received! It sounds like something that would resonate with him and is definitely something I’ll tweak/suggest to fit our school policy. Maybe trying a different tact will help here.
Our school ethos is all about encouraging a nurturing, welcoming community though so, at the very least, he should be saying ‘hello’ to students as they come in. But at least, if he has a focus, he can follow up the ‘hello’ with some instructions/learning expectations. At the moment he is literally just ignoring the students while he clicks around on the PowerPoint or reads his notes.

As much as I didn’t want to mentor this time round, I am committed to the role and want to get the best out of this trainee, which is why I’m asking for advice in the first place. I’ve made some really great progress with students in the past and this is the first time I’ve struggled to approach this. I am regretting accepting the role though, just because this student is so difficult and is taking up so much of my time, yet hasn’t even reflected on feedback. It makes me wonder what’s the point.

I feel better equipped with some useful approaches now though, plus I will make sure I have the backing of the uni/senior mentor. Let’s see if he’s in tomorrow and we go again!

Oh @MrsHamlet I‘m sure your new trainees will be better than this fella 🤞🏻

Let's hope they're also better than the one I chucked out last year!

Don’t they teach Maslow’s hierarchy of needs any more? So many scholarly articles about relationships. Even if you are all about the learning your student must realise that the environment needs to be conducive to learning?
Mind you, my last 2 NQTs made me leave classroom teaching…

You’d think they do @PenOrPencil Ironically, I’ve had student teachers in the past who are too far the other way, trying to be friends with yr 11 etc. and getting distracted instead of teaching, but that’s quite common.

One of my roles is as a visiting tutor to university students on placement, making sure things are going OK for them both professionally and personally. Even though it is only part time, I am always available to them if they want to chat any problems over, be it struggles at work or a personal issue.

However, they are expected to listen to feedback and address any concerns I raise. In this instance I would saying to the student something like 'well you might disagree with what I am saying, or think it's unimportant, but I'm afraid you're just going to have to do it anyway because it's one of the criteria on which your performance is assessed'. Students don't have the luxury of ignoring suggestions or advice from their tutors/mentors. I would fail any student who continued to do this.

So update: the senior mentor has observed him and agreed on all the same points I brought up. He’s now on a cause for concern with targets to support (lots of practical suggestions taken from your advice, plus links to reading, etc. so thank you!)
However, he went to the uni provider today to report us for bullying as he feels we are picking up on things that are ‘soft’ and not important and he is very secure in his lessons as he knows he’s delivering excellent content. I think the uni now have to arrange a mediation meeting to ‘find a way forward’. Give me strength! 4 days left until we break up and we’re all on our knees/could really do without this.

Dear God. The way forward is that he listens and acts on feedback or his placement is withdrawn

I just can’t believe he thinks his lesson content is ‘excellent‘. I have never met anybody that lacks such self awareness. I don’t know who he’s going to listen to… Ofsted? Thank god I’m an experienced mentor with a good track record or his absolute self-assurance (arrogance?) that he’s completely right and we’re completely wrong would actually have me doubting myself!

I can believe it. There are some truly deluded trainees out there - and the uni have to take their complaints seriously because they're paying for a service.

If he had any common sense, he would "humour you" even if he thinks you are wrong, and go back to what he thinks is the 'best way' to teach when (if ?) he gets a job.
I always tell students that teaching practices are effectively 12 week interviews. Nobody expects a student to be experts in all aspects of what they have to do, but you do expect them to take on board advice, and make improvements.

Is he really so lacking in awareness that he thinks teaching staff don't talk to friends and colleagues when they know a student has been on TP at a school where they know someone ???

Oh my. Is he going to be back after Christmas or moving on to another school? In any case good luck for the last few days, @Confusedteacher123