Primary or Secondary English?

[whattoteach]

I'm a mature (mid 30s) student in my final year at university, strongly considering doing a PGCE. Up until very recently, I was convinced that Primary would be the route to go down. I understand that the course will be intense, and that this might not be the best time in education to entertain the idea. However, I feel it's kind of a 'now or never' scenario. I've never had a career up until this point, only a series of jobs.

I've just had a phone conversation with a teaching advisor from Get Into Teaching, who mistakenly thought I wanted to be a secondary English teacher. Now, this has got me thinking. English has always been 'my' subject. I love it. Would have strongly considered this had I no knowledge of how tough teenagers can be. I'm not a shrinking violet, but I don't think I could cope with older pupils.

I know I'm probably not going to find an answer here, but I wanted to put this out there and see if I can gain some wisdom from experienced teachers.

Should I stay on course and aim for a PGCE in primary education, or take a chance on specialising in a subject I feel most comfortable with?

You need to spend some time in both the primary and secondary setting. If you don’t p, you’ll always be wondering if the grass is greener.

I love teaching secondary English. Teenagers are brilliant. I find younger kids much scarier.

BUT, it really is very personal. My primary colleagues love younger children and would hate secondary.

Have you spent much time in schools? Or with kids? Contact local schools / youth groups and see if you can get some work experience. It used to be normal to spend a week shadowing in a school before applying for a PGCE. That should help you decide what would work best for you.

Agree you need to spend time in both. They are very different jobs.

What’s your degree?

I would definitely spend time in both settings to get a feel for what would suit you.

I teach secondary science and love secondary. I find older kids so much fun and enjoy helping them through their exams and onto the next stage.

I did 3 days in primary at the start of my PGCE and really hated it.

It's very personal though so you have to find what suits you. The school can make a huge difference as well.

The Get into Teaching advisor has brought up secondary English because it's currently a shortage subject. You would get £15, 000 to train and you would likely find it easier to secure a permanent contract at the end of your PGCE. I do think those are practical things to consider.

But if you hate secondary, you wouldn't last long in the job.

As others have said, getting work experience with both ages/stages would be the best thing to do!

Sorry for the late response, been a bit hectic at this end!

With regards to experience, I'm in touch with a local primary school for volunteering/experience. Looks likely to go ahead, just figuring out dates and such.

Will look into getting some secondary experience, too. Seems obvious that this would be the only way to get a feel for the role! My only real dealings with teenagers seem to be on board buses. Needless to say, witnessing behaviour from afar, this is enough to put me off! Sounds daft, but I swear teens seem more 'spirited' these days. (Sixteen year old me is currently rolling her eyes)

I'm doing a BA(Hons) Creative Writing. Would probably need to do a Skills Enhancement course of some description before a PGCE Secondary.

The teaching advisor did mention the £15,000 bursary, which is obviously a huge thing to consider. I had no idea that English was considered a shortage subject! Genuinely believed it was oversubscribed. One of the reasons I never really considered it.

With regards to employability, would Primary or English be a better bet for securing a permanent role?

Experience is the main focus at the moment, then! Thank you for your responses. All points have been considered, sometimes it's just helpful to see it written down!

Employability wise, English. As you’ve discovered, it’s a shortage subject so there are always jobs available. Depending on where you are, securing a permanent primary role after training can be much harder.

You would have to be willing to commit to significant and ongoing subject knowledge development in either phase. From personal experience I have mentored a trainee with joint honours English and creative writing and he had major gaps in his subject knowledge and needed a lot of support. Do you have A level English Lit? That would help.

There are always vacancies for teachers of English.

I applied to my university directly via their own mature study entry scheme. I have no A Levels. Did well in my GCSEs, but no relevant further education. AS Levels in Psychology and Sociology, but I doubt they'd count for much in the grand scheme of things. Even then, I got those in 2007! Perhaps the gaps in my knowledge may prove too much of a hindrence?

*hindrance 😂

I would hope not! You’re obviously committed to life-long learning. Are you a reader? Do you have a good knowledge of the canon from your own reading?

Definitely a reader, but of the more contemporary. Knowledge of the canon is extremely limited. We've had English Literature modules as part of my current degree, and I've just this instant realised how much I don't enjoy the 'classics'. Sorry, Shakespeare and others. Not sure how comfortable I'd feel about teaching them.

These posts are really getting my brain going!

OK. You need to look at the content in the national curriculum programme of study for KS3 and KS4, and at the specifications for GCSE English Language and English Literature (AQA is the most widely taught). There is Shakespeare teaching in every key stage. Dickens is very widely taught. In terms of poetry you’ll need to be comfortable with an overview from the Romantics onwards, plus more Shakespeare in the form of his sonnets.

Thank you so much for your input! Will definitely have a read of the curriculum to familiarise myself.

It's amazing how much of school you forget! Flashbacks of 'A Christmas Carol' and 'Macbeth' are now extremely vivid.

I do a lot of recruitment and shortlisting across phases in my role. My specialism is secondary English but I work with primaries too. It sounds like employability is a major (and understandable!) concern so I can offer some thoughts on the cv you’ve described if helpful.

For secondary English I’d shortlist you, assuming a strong performance in your PGCE and an SKE (which any reputable ITT provider would insist upon). I’d have concerns about a lack of formal English qualifications post-16, so you would be wise to emphasise the Eng Lit content of your degree. Ultimately however, teaching secondary English means teaching Shakespeare, Dickens, Brontë, Austen, Tennyson, Byron, Wordsworth, Coleridge etc as well as Blackman, Ness, Zephaniah, Armitage, Heaney, Duffy et al. That might be a deal-breaker for you.

At primary level, writing is a HUGE anxiety and concern in many many schools, especially at KS2. If your degree and experience mean that you are confident teaching children to construct their writing at sentence, paragraph and text level, with explicit teaching of grammar, then you will be in very high demand.

If any teachers can spare a couple of minutes to complete my questionnaire I would really appreciate it! Questions are around teacher training in relation to children with cancer. I have full ethical approval. Thankyou 🥰
lincoln.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/main-teacher-questionnaire

I don't know anyone at all who has struggled to secure a teaching position in primary in the past 10 years, including thoroughly useless people. This is Derbyshire/Notts/Leicestershire/Lincolnshire.

I do! It’s really area specific.
Definitely worth doing some research in your area before going for primary. My area is rural, with lovely primary schools. Jobs in these schools come up infrequently as teachers stay for years. Whilst I was job hunting, I’d say there were at least 10 secondary opportunities for every primary one. I didn’t see English opportunities as frequently as maths/computing/science, but definitely more than primary.
Ultimately though, you should base your choice after experiencing different age groups and see what you feel more suited to. Most teachers I know in secondary couldn’t imagine dealing with 5 year olds and vice versa!

My experience of the job market is similar to moonlaser. I'm secondary English but primary trained and have contemplated the move back to primary, but competition is quite fierce round here.

Really? I teach in the Peak District - beautiful village schools in mostly affluent areas. Pretty much all rated Good or Outstanding. There are still plenty of vacancies. I don't doubt there are more secondary vacancies but there's no shortage of primary jobs.

@TwitTw00 yes really, there are huge differences around the country. I’ve been keeping tabs on about 20 village schools in my area and there has only been 1 vacancy in the past 9 months.