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The staffroom

Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

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Original poster

Can other part time teachers tell me if your pension also looks wrong?

21 replies

justgotosleepffs · 30/08/2022 09:50

I've been in the TPS since 2003, so 19 years. I was full time till 2008, then part time since then, currently 4 days, mostly around 3+ days, never below 50%.
I've just been looking at my employment history, and I just don't understand the "days out". I assume these are the days I'm not working, so I don't get paid and they're not pensionable. But the number of "days out" seems quite random and arbitrary, not really corresponding to anything. E.g. on years when I worked 3 days, I was having 2 days out per week, so over the year that should add up to 104, but my pension is showing much higher than that.
Have any other part-time teachers noticed a similar thing, or can anyone shed some light on how this is actually calculated? By my own calculations, the additional "days out" (beyond the legitimate ones) add up to about 3 years of service. I don't know if it's just me, or if everyone's pension is like this?!

OP posts:

OiFrogg · 30/08/2022 22:45

Interesting that you say this as I just looked at mine and the days out are all very odd. I contacted the helpline who said to speak to the school, which I will do when term starts. I'll let you know what happens. I have the payslips to show I didn't have these random 'days out.

watingroom2 · 30/08/2022 23:15

mine is shown as a set no of days out from Sept - April and a different set from April to August -

In one borough the numbers are pretty constant whereas in another they are all over the place - i'm not really sure why - if you get more info please let me know

thanks

pinkyponkyplink · 31/08/2022 23:52

Do any of you have both a Final salary 80% pension and a career average pension on your pension statement (can choose which you take on retirement)? My FSP is going down

Original poster

justgotosleepffs · 02/09/2022 13:16

@pinkyponkyplink Yes, i have a combination of final salary and career average. But i dont think you choose which one to take. The final salary one goes up to about 2016 then the career average one starts from then. At retirement we take them both, like 2 different pensions.

I don't see why your FS one should be going down in value though?

I've asked my employer about days out but haven't heard anything back yet

OP posts:

Meredusoleil · 02/09/2022 17:00

I'm similar to you OP. Qualified in 2004. Full time until 2009, then 0.6 part time since. Can't make head nor tail of my pension tbh!

pinkyponkyplink · 02/09/2022 18:38

Check this. I was told it was either or unfortunately

OiFrogg · 02/09/2022 18:48

pinkyponkyplink · 02/09/2022 18:38

Check this. I was told it was either or unfortunately

Like the OP I also don't understand this as I only paid into a FSP for a year or two. But what happens to those contributions if I can only take my career average?

pinkyponkyplink · 02/09/2022 18:51

I'm not even sure. It's a mystery to me too. I have, or had until it started going down, a really good FSP and it is decreasing and I've been told to opt out for a month to stop it but it blows my mind. I also thought I could take both! I'll ring TP next week if I have time but I was told a few months ago it was either or, not both pensions

Original poster

justgotosleepffs · 02/09/2022 18:56

It can't possibly be either-or. The years accrued prior to 2016 or whenever are in the Final Salary, the years after that are Career Average They changed the terms of the teachers pension, so our earlier years have different conditions than our later ones. they tried to make you pick one then they would be forcing you to either disregard all your pensionable service up to 2016 or all your pensionable service thereafter.

OP posts:

Meredusoleil · 02/09/2022 19:26

justgotosleepffs · 02/09/2022 18:56

I agree. It must be FSP first. Then career average after.

pinkyponkyplink · 02/09/2022 19:47

This was what I was told. We need to ring teachers pension. I really hope I'm wrong but I was told by someone a few months ago and rang teachers pension and that's what I was told. Feel cheated

pinkyponkyplink · 02/09/2022 19:48

Doesn't the career average also include the years I worked for the final salary pension?
I put 10 years in the final salary. My final salary pension is 3 times as much as my career average pension but it is decreasing

pinkyponkyplink · 02/09/2022 19:58

I completely agree. Why would it be disregarded either before CA or after FSP. I hope I was told wrong. Maybe we should start a new thread on it on here

watingroom2 · 02/09/2022 20:31

There was a court ruling - so they 'instigated the pension too soon without enough time for contingency' .. so staff didn't have a chance to move their pension to a better option - so you can now in or out to the career average from 2015 - 2022 (I think I might be out on dates!).. For some people one will be better than the other - depending on when you retire - its not 'cut and dried' .. and you can opt for which ever gives you more when you come to retire.

SO you will be either chose-

Final pension - from your start date to 2015 and career average from 2015 to the end of service...

Final pension from start date to 2022 and career average from 2022 - to end of service

You will ALWAYS get both - not 'one or the other' .. if you see what your choice is.

As for your pension going down - inflation will have an impact - last year your wages were worth 11% more than this year (unless we get an increase!) .. as the cost of living index has made the shift

By taking 1 month 'you put a stop in' to where your pension will be calculated (this is very relevant if you 'drop a TLR or.. move from Inner London to 'outer or fringe' ) .. Dave fountain has useful videos.

I hope that makes it a bit clearer for you (Please correct me if I'm wrong I'm only just getting my head around this )

pinkyponkyplink · 02/09/2022 20:42

I will look into this more but I'm sorry I really don't understand.
I started teaching in 2002. My final salary is from 2002 to 2015 and my career average salary is from 2015 to current day. I have another 20+ years ahead of me. What does this mean for me? So confused

watingroom2 · 02/09/2022 20:57

pinkyponkyplink · 02/09/2022 20:42

Initially 'everyone' was moved to career average.. with Final salary you can retire at 60... with career average you have to retire at state pension age (this depends on when you are born and may change for me currently it is 67)...

When pensions are changed - the pension company has to give the people in the pension time to consider if they want to accept the changes or make other arrangements - there was a legal challenge to the teachers pension - and it was ruled - by court - that there was not enough time to decide.

As a result you can now choose - your career average - will show as starting in 2015.. but in reality you can choose to either start career average at 2015 or 2022. You make this choice when you decide to retire - as it is not clear cut who benefits from which! (sorry not that helpful) ..

I do think it is confusing and I do feel that we are not taught enough 'financial numeracy'... but that is a whole other thread

pinkyponkyplink · 02/09/2022 21:50

Thank you so much for explaining. I really appreciate you explaining to me. Thanks

WombatChocolate · 04/09/2022 16:31

The reason your final salary pension (until 2015) could be dropping is that there are 2 ways to calculate it and best of 2 is used.

this is based on your last years salary. FTE will be used.
Best 3 consecutive years averaged in last 10. These are revalued for inflation, so these are often higher than method 1.

As the years move on, your last of the 10 years ‘drop out’ and when this happens, it’s quite possible for your FS pension to drop if recent years haven’t had good pay rises.

And yes to looking at Dave Fountains videos - Classroom in Rearview website. If your FS oension is starting to drop, taking a month of break from TPS could well stop it dropping further. Look at the website and act soon if you need to.

And to confirm, the TPS website currently shows you being in FS scheme until 2015 and service after this in the Average Salary scheme. You will receive both pensions. If you want them at the age they pay out without an actuarial reduction, the FS will pay out at 60 or 65 depending on when you joined and the Career Average scheme not until state retirement age.

However, due to McCloud ruling, if you’d ere in FS in 2012 and still in 2015, you will have option to keep that scheme until April 2022 if pension. It is better for most but not lol to do this. The TPS website cannot show this yet…not for a good while yet.

You can calculate what FS until 2022 will mean for you - Salary (using Mehtod 1 or 2 listed above) divided by 80 and multiplied by years of service . The TPS shows your amount of years accrued fully as a part timer…you just accrue full years more slowly as a part timer.

Its def worth getting your head round. Just a couple of hours reading Dave Fountains website and looki g at TPS website will give you a much better understanding.

pinkyponkyplink · 04/09/2022 17:18

Thank you. @WombatChocolate would you mind messaging me and looking at mine. I really don't understand it. I know you can't give financial advice.

My final salary says I can take it at 60 and my CAS says I can take it at 68. So I can take the FS at 60 and then pick up the other at 68?

WombatChocolate · 04/09/2022 17:57

Hi, sorry but I only post on threads and don’t message individuals.
Yes, you’ll be right that you can take the FS at 60 and then get the CA pension at 68. There is also the option to take the CA at 60 too, but you’d get less per year as you’d be taking it for more years.

You just need to spend some time reading up on it and you’ll pick it all up really quickly. Look at TPS website and also the Dave fOuntain stuff.

HDM · 28/04/2023 22:28

I am offered a job in independent school. Their pension scheme offer 3% pension by employer.
does it look real? Can I please ask any private school teachers, how much pension you are paid by your employers?

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