Teaching in independent vs state school

[Marmaladegin]

Specialist job has recently come up in local independent school. I've discovered from a friend who works there that the pay is unlikely to be more than state... possibly I might even be offered less than my current salary.

I gather that in independent sector the hours are often longer during term time, but this is effectively balanced out by longer holidays... but I feel there must be some other benefits...? Otherwise why would anyone move to the independent sector?!

There is staff discount on fees, but less than 70% so still expensive as far as my household income is concerned. I'm also aware that parents can be more demanding/ more supportive... but I guess this is rather pot luck so not worth considering much.

Are there other pros/ cons to be aware of? Has anyone managed to negotiate extra benefits?

Pros: Smaller class sizes. Supportive parents. Some creativity with the curriculum. Longer holidays. Discount on fees for own children. Children who want to learn. Children who do homework.

Cons: Longer school day. Demanding parents. An expectation to attend many school events, more regular parent’s evenings, expectations around sporting fixtures, work on a weekend. Children with a massive sense of entitlement.

Possibly:
Free lunch. Less pay/more pay. Opted out of TPS. No UPS. More PPA but more cover requirements.

I do it because we are still in the TPS, I get a great lunch, the class sizes are smaller and I have a freehand with my curriculum. I also teach across prep and seniors which suits me but is terrifying for some! I have also found considerable flexibility around life issues - parent’s dementia, child requiring regular hospital appointments etc, - than I ever had in the state sector. On the whole, I would say work life balance is better, despite the longer days and event demands - a good example is marking where if I only have 15 in a class, I am spending half the time marking with a similar marking policy. Ultimately, as with all schools, it’s whether or not you have good colleagues and a supportive SLT.

Thank you- yes, this school apparently doesn't do UPS, which I just find very annoying!

They do have a decent pension scheme. And I appreciate the lunch is welcome and the fees discount could be useful. I'm just wondering if there's anything I could negotiate to make it more appealing.

You would need to do your research on the school. I am at a medium independent in an area of not inconsiderable deprivation. There are no concerns about our numbers - they are steady - but we charge very much at the lower end of things and would not be able to put our fees up very much before we caused ourselves a problem. Simply put, there is no money for perks. A 50% fee reduction and a free lunch is as good as we get!

There is an addition to the cons I had forgotten - the marketing. It is a massive thing. An expectation of photos of school life to go on social media. My curriculum is pretty much designed with photo opportunities in mind!

Thank you @howtomoveforwards ... what are the upsides of where you work then? If the pay isn't as good and you have other downsides such as demanding parents (?) why are you there? Genuinely asking, not goody.

*Hoary even

Oh ffs!!! *goady!
Bloomin autocorrect

better work life balance from a marking point of view, smaller classes and whilst there is above average SEN, there are few genuinely disruptive pupils seeking attention and trying it on continually, the opportunity to design my own curriculum was amazing and I have loved it and love tweaking it continually, the opportunity to have students do weird and wonderful competitions, the opportunity for trips and outings to develop learning, the opportunity for off-timetable days to develop learning, I even do interesting clubs and summer school days which I enjoy….this is all in the prep school. Exams rather dictate the direction of the curriculum in the senior school but even there, there is more of an appetite for competitions etc. The fun stuff that brings the learning to life.

It is easier from a behaviour perspective. As an example, I recently used a PowerPoint that had been designed for 2 x 1 hour lessons (so 120 minutes) in year 8 in a good school in the state sector. I delivered the entire content in 35 minutes in my current school….so that’s 85 minutes of extension if you’re thinking about it like for like…

@howtomoveforwards has summarised the pros and cons very well. IME the kids are lovely & it's routine to be thanked for the lesson/ be given good wishes for the weekend 🙂 The marking workload is more manageable due to the smaller class sizes. Discipline issues are rare.

OTOH, the kids can also be entitled and take it for granted that staff will give up evenings, weekends and even holidays to facilitate extra-curricular activities. The parents are even worse and tend to treat the teachers like staff 😡with no respect for our professionalism. The Head will always take the parents' side in a complaint, because pupils = cash. This in itself is stressful, because you never know when a parent will fire off an email about some trivial incident that you can't even remember, retelling it from the child's POV and believing them entirely.

I'd be worried about the TPS in your position - you say the school doesn't pay UPS, so it can't be flush with money. We haven't had a pay rise in God knows how long, and we had a bitter recent fight to keep the pension. (All the indies around us are out.) On balance, I'd rather be in an indie with TPS than a state school, but the pressures aren't absent - they're just different.

There are a large range of independent experiences from significantly better than most state schools to significantly worse.

Small and struggling independents can be worse to work at than state. The lack of TPS is a HUGE issue and well worth considering seriously. As others say there can be less pay, very significant demands and no real sense of having any limits on what those demands might be. Some teachers accept these significant weaknesses for the smaller classes and often easier behaviour or the convent men if the job is very near them or their kids are in the school. Sometimes schools like this have weaker teachers and those who accept those shitty terms would struggle to get jobs elsewhere in reality.

Well resourced and organised independents can offer smaller classes, lighter loading of timetable, an expectation if extra curricular involvement which is significant but not unmanagaebale, great training, can offer significantly higher salaries, possibly perks like accommodation, food, major fee reductions. It’s a totally different world to the struggling crap little independents which exist and often close down.

Perosnally, I wouldn’t go somewhere without the pension. It’s honestly a huge big deal for your retirement. Most independents aren’t on the same pay scales so UPS doesn’t exist although there might be higher than UPS pay. It likely means if you return to stare that you need to cross the threshold …it’s a reason many never return and is worth considering.

I work in an independent prep and we do not have TPS anymore. We are not a little struggling one but we are also not a massively oversubscribed prep where you have to sign up at birth (like the major central London preps).
I’ve only been a teacher in this school, I did however work as a TA in the state sector and carried out uni placements in state. I have teacher friends in both.

• My pay is on par with my state sector colleagues from what we’ve discussed. We have our own version of UPS where we have to prove to management that we are deserving of it through weeks (months?) of observations, interviews and god knows what else. I haven’t served long enough to qualify yet.
• I don’t know how disadvantaged I am with the TPS because I’ve never had it. I don’t seem to have a bad deal right now but will look into it and I have 37 years before retirement so time to sort it.

My observations from my time:

• A pro - smaller classes. Less marking, less physically of everything to sort. Planning takes just as long, I’m in reception so less online journals to complete. Ability to get to know each child that bit better.
• Con - less children but a higher percentage of pushy / precious and entitled parents then I found at state. Oh there were plenty in the state sector too, but when there’s a price tag attached to it, your approach has to change. Many parents arrive on the first day of reception and make it very clear that they are wanting their child at a grammar school or top independent senior school. A lot of this behaviour can be found at any school, but by different approach, I mean when a parent demands to know why there child hasn’t got a reading book yet but little Freddie and Joseph do, (because they have demonstrated an ability to blend and your child is still only saying sounds but will likely blend soon and we give books when the child is ready so as not to make reading an impossible challenge and negative experience), we likely will just give them a book because otherwise the threat to withdraw their child and their 3 siblings over it could do us some severe harm.
• Pro - despite the slightly larger percentage of fickle parents, most of our parents are lovely and generous. The pushy and rude are definitely outnumbered by those who just want the best and are willing to work side by side with us and are grateful and interested (even if still pushy and anxious, they’re nice about it). And I have done very well with Christmas and end of year gifts since joining here!
• Pro - I get given lunch each day and it’s a good lunch.
• Pro - A lot more flexibility in my curriculum and topics and how I’m allowed to teach. Much more access to resources. No bottomless pit of money but I can request craft supplies for example and usually get it no problem. I have a full time TA as do all classes up to Year 4. TAs past Y5 tend to float around more.
• Pro - no SATS. We have our own assessments. Huge pressure off.
• Con - I live in an 11+ grammar area, the pressure for this is ridiculously high.
• Con - parents evening every term. Lots of open evenings for current parents to see the classrooms and work (once every half term). Awards day is on a Saturday after summer term. Attendance at fundraisers, school shows and concerts is expected. They like you to be be a part of the community.
• Pro - holidays much longer as a result. Summer starts on 6th July this year, so two months off. Two week October half term, 3 weeks each at Christmas and Easter. Yes I still have to do some work in these but there’s actually a decent amount of time left to switch off too.
• Pro or con - the pay and pension system, dependent on school.
• Con - probably a bit less job security or protection than in the state sector. private sector across the board of any job is not as “safe” as the state sector.
• Pro - our Key stage 2 and 3 teachers (class teachers and non PE specialists) have two whole afternoons of non contact time a week due to fixtures and Games. Plus other “frees” depending on their role.

It will largely all come down to the school, the colleagues, the team and management. I’m happy in mine and not sure if I could return to state where there’s just no freedom and no budget but then that’s also due to being very supported by my SLT. That will vary greatly no matter which sector you’re in.

Theres no harm in applying and seeing the conditions. It’s a very different world I must say but easier or harder is debatable. Best of luck in your decision!

Thank you everyone so far for the very helpful responses. I guess the short answer is I just have to see what this particular school offer. I know they are neither ridiculously competitive or struggling for funds... so I'm curious mainly about pay progression.

Lots of helpful things to think over, thank you.

One major advantage in our school is the freedom you get. Both in terms of what you teach and how you do it. It seems to be in our school if you first set of results are good and kids don't complain then you can basically do what you like, how you like.

I've had one observation since moving over 2 years ago.

Along with the major difference in behaviour it means the job is far less stressful - although I would say , for me, the independent is harder work in terms of the actual amount of stuff to do , but easier in terms of the amount it takes from you.

Thank you- "harder in terms of actual work but easier in terms of what it takes from you" sounds very interesting and I think may answer my question a lot!

Max 20 children in a class
Full time TA
Free lunch
Free parking
50% off school fees
18 weeks holiday
One weekend open morning per year
2 parents evenings per year
Curriculum flexibility
No SATS
No phonics tests
Budget to buy all your classroom resources
Loads of technology in each classroom

If the ‘decent pension scheme’ isn’t TPS then be very clear on what you are giving up.