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The staffroom

Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

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Original poster

Fair amount of PPA?

33 replies

teachingquery · 15/01/2022 10:14

Hi all. I'm a secondary school teacher and I'm currently on mat leave. My head teacher has presented me with the option of returning to work without a tutor group but for less pay. Before starting this mat leave I was working 3 days a week, did have a tutor group and was on a 0.64 contract (and was paid as such). I received 4 PPA hours across the fortnightly timetable period.

If I choose to return without a tutor group this time then I will be on a 0.58 contract, which is quite a big drop in pay. I would be ok with this if it would mean gaining an extra 20 mins every morning when I would have previously been doing tutor time, except that I have been told that I would also only get 3 hours of PPA across the fortnight. So effectively would be gaining two hours a fortnight through the loss of form time, but losing an hour of PPA so would be taking quite a big drop in pay for only one extra hour a fortnight.

Does this sound right to you? I'm trying to work it out in my head but getting all in a muddle- I don't want to appear confused to my headteacher.

If it helps clarify anything, full time teachers with tutor groups get 8 hours of PPA time across the fortnight. There are 5 hours of teaching a day and therefore 50 hours of teaching across the fortnight.

Can anyone shed any light on whether I'm being screwed over at all? Or have similar/different experiences in other schools?

OP posts:

Original poster

teachingquery · 15/01/2022 10:16

To further confuse things, two colleagues in my department also work 3 days a week. Both of them have tutor groups but only on 2 out of the three days. They both get 4 hours of PPA across the fortnight still, but with the added benefit of one day a week with no tutor group. Is it possible they're on a different contract or have just lucked out?

OP posts:

MrsHamlet · 15/01/2022 12:04

PPA is a proportion of your committed time. If you're contracted for fewer hours, you will get less PPA. I think the tutor group is a red herring.

Original poster

teachingquery · 15/01/2022 19:43

Thank you. I thought PPA was a proportion of our teaching hours, separate for assemblies, tutor periods etc? I will still be teaching the same number of classes etc as before so assumed I would need the same amount of PPA to plan for those?

OP posts:

MrsHamlet · 15/01/2022 20:24

It's timetabled teaching teaching time. If you're expected to teach in form time, they're probably counting that.

Yellowmellow2 · 16/01/2022 14:26

PPA is 10% of teaching time.

Original poster

teachingquery · 16/01/2022 21:16

Thanks all. If it's the case that they're counting form time as teaching time then yes, maybe that would explain it. We're not expected to 'teach' as such during form time, as PSHE is taught in separate lessons not by form tutors, but we are expected to run various activities during form time.

If that's the case then I don't think gaining an extra 20 mins each morning is worth the loss of a PPA period. PPA is precious!

OP posts:

Fieldday · 16/01/2022 23:05

In my private school being a form duty is a massive role - planning assemblies, dealing with relationship/friendship issues, being the main contact between school and home etc etc etc. it’s so much more than just the time during form. Think carefully about what else the role entails and how much time that takes you. For me I could easily say it’s an extra 40 mins a day on top of a 40 min form period in the morning and a 15 min period in the afternoon.

Original poster

teachingquery · 17/01/2022 06:39

@Fieldday thank you- having taught full time for 8 years before mat leave I do very much understand the need to spend extra time talking to parents, helping with friendship issues, planning assemblies etc. However our tutor time is only 20 mins once a day and in all honesty it doesn't provide as much workload as you seem to have in your school.

What I'm struggling with is that the loss of a PPA isn't just the loss of an hour of planning time, it's gaining an extra lesson which I then have to plan, generates extra marking etc.

I'm finding it a difficult decision to make!

OP posts:

lanthanum · 17/01/2022 14:15

The other big difference it might make not having a tutor group is if you don't have to be at school until later. I had a colleague who had a contract with no tutor group, which enabled her to take her daughter to school every day and avoid the need for before-school childcare.
If either of your part-time colleagues has children of primary age, they might be interested in the no-tutor-group option, as it could be more of a gain for them.

Clammyclam · 17/01/2022 22:22

If you take the option of no tutor group as you want to be starting later (gaining the 20mins daily) ensure you have this agreed as you might find you get put on cover for an absent tutor.
it's worth making sure you know the heads expectations and they know yours.

Original poster

teachingquery · 18/01/2022 09:46

Yes I had thought about this too. Another benefit would be on end of term days and sports day etc when staff are expected to be with their tutor groups- I want that extra time to do my own work- I wouldn't want to be allocated someone else's group to cover.

I should also point out that I wouldn't use the extra time that arrive later- I'm v much an early bird and will always get to school at 7.30am regardless- but would be nice to have the extra 20 mins each morning to work while everyone else is with their tutor groups.

Still really don't want to lose that PPA though!

OP posts:

EllieNBeeb · 18/01/2022 09:57

Does the 20 minutes each day not add up to at least as much or more than the PPA period you are losing? Or do you just want to get paid more to work less?

Original poster

teachingquery · 18/01/2022 10:59

@EllieNBeeb

Does the 20 minutes each day not add up to at least as much or more than the PPA period you are losing? Or do you just want to get paid more to work less?

The 20 minutes daily adds up to 2 hours gained across the fortnight (I work part time). I would however lose 1 hour of PPA a fortnight, and be paid quite a lot less (£2500 less to be precise). How you have surmised I want to be paid more to work less is a bit perplexing.

Essentially I would gain an hour of (broken up) time a fortnight for quite a lot less money, and trying to work out if that's worth it.

OP posts:

Orchid876 · 18/01/2022 20:16

It’s a weird way of working out your pay, IMO. I’ve done 0.6 for years, which in my school means three full days with form time, and about 3 hours PPA over the fortnight (it’s actually a bit more, 4 x 50min periods). To pay you more than 0.6 for three days, with 4 hours PPA, was quite generous I think. Tbh, given your situation, and the fact form time is presumably not as much work as a lesson, I’d ask to go back to your previous working pattern. They should honor that, they can’t just decide to reduce your contract without your agreement.

Fieldday · 18/01/2022 21:18

Orchid and Teachingquery now I’m curious about what seems a very small amount of PPA for both of you to me. How long are your school days? I am also three days per week, 0.6 with three days of form duty. However I get 6 hours PPA per week, so 12 hours per fortnight (9x 40 min lessons). Our school day is 8.30am till 4.10pm with 1hr,20 min of break time.

Original poster

teachingquery · 18/01/2022 21:36

@Fieldday

Blimey- is that in a state school?!

Our school starts at 8.40 and finishes at 3.30 with an hour and 20 mins of break time.

That's a LOT of PPA you're getting!

OP posts:

Fieldday · 18/01/2022 21:46

But if you think of it, that’s 40 min a day extra we’re teaching, which for a 0.6 timetable equates to 2 hours per week - giving me 4 hours per week PPA, if we were on your timetable. I guess that’s still twice yours - thus I was surprised at how low your PPA time appeared. No, mine is an independent school, not state, but I didn’t expect that disparity. How do you have time to do anything?

MrsHamlet · 18/01/2022 21:47

PPA is a minimum of 10%. I don't any state schools which give much more than that.

Original poster

teachingquery · 18/01/2022 21:57

@Fieldday

My alarm goes off at 4am on weekdays so I can mark before school (or at least that was my routine before mat leave). That's how I get it done.

Hence my dismay at an earlier poster saying I wanted to 'earn more for working less'. I work damn hard.

OP posts:

MrsHamlet · 18/01/2022 22:02

That's insane!

Fieldday · 18/01/2022 22:06

I think mine works out at 33% PPA of timetabled teaching hours. 9 free of total of 27 teaching periods.

Fieldday · 18/01/2022 22:14

Sorry teaching query - my last message was so insensitive - I got busy trying to figure out the percentage I missed your message about your insane working hours. I thought mine were bad. I get to work at 7.30 and leave about 5 on working days, but I do work a full extra 1.5 days extra that im not paid to so I can relax at the weekend (most of the time!).

Orchid876 · 19/01/2022 21:49

Yep, I work on my days off too. I teach 16 periods a week, and 10% PPA is 1.6 periods, so 2 periods of PPA per week is what I get. There's never enough time to do everything within my contracted days, but full-time is so much worse!

Bluepiano · 20/01/2022 22:05

I’m really surprised at how different peoples PPA allowance is. I’m primary and teach for 5hrs 45 mins a day with 45 mins for lunch. I get 2.5 hours ppa a week

Meredusoleil · 20/01/2022 22:07

@Bluepiano

I’m really surprised at how different peoples PPA allowance is. I’m primary and teach for 5hrs 45 mins a day with 45 mins for lunch. I get 2.5 hours ppa a week

Sounds exactly like at my primary school 👌

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