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The staffroom

Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

Move to Independent school lose TPS?

42 replies

mostlyhalfbaked · 09/01/2022 18:51

Hi, I've seen a great job in a really lovely independent school nearby. Salary is potentially 7K more than I currently earn, for a similar job. It would be a better work life balance, more convenient etc BUT it is going to stop the TPS and therefore long term I'm wondering if it is worth it?
I have 15 full time and 5 part time years in my TPS, so far.
Would you make the move?

OP posts:
FoxandFeathers · 09/01/2022 21:10

I wouldn’t. It would be worth getting a free consultation with a financial advisor through your union as your circumstances may mean it wouldn’t affect you as much.
I find the hours much longer in term time, the longer holidays make up for it but be prepared for more clubs/ parents evenings/ duties etc etc.

DolphinFC · 09/01/2022 21:49

What's the pension scheme like at the private school?

The TPS can be a bit of a golden handcuff; I'd think very carefully before giving it up.

AnInspectorBores · 10/01/2022 13:10

My independent school was in consultation recently to leave the TPS. We managed to fight off the proposal for now, but I expect the governors will have a second go. More and more indies are coming out, even ones you would think were wealthy enough to manage the increased contributions.

A Direct Contribution pension offered by an indie (APTIS is a popular one) cannot match the Direct Benefit TPS. Some people worked out they would lose 1/3 of the value of their pension. Think very carefully before moving to a school without TPS. This will cause recruitment problems for indies in the long run, IMO.

mostlyhalfbaked · 10/01/2022 22:57

Thanks, I'm going to find out more about what pension scheme they are offering. I believe they are still in consultation, so a slim chance it could stay in the TPS.

I'm just trying to weigh up improving my current circumstances in a number or ways, versus having enough pension to retire on fairly comfortably. If indeed I make it to retirement age!!

I appreciate that the job is still going to include parents evenings duties etc. but there are lots of reasons why it would help my current work life balance.
Thanks for the replies

OP posts:
dootball · 11/01/2022 20:57

One really important thing to remember , is that the value of your teacher pension increases more generously (an extra 1.6% per year) due to inflation than if you leave. That means if you plan to spend a long time in education still it will have a big impact not just on what you accumulate in the future, but also devaluing what you have already earned. You have been teaching a little longer than be (so potentially have a bit less time left) but I have (roughly) worked out that it would be equivalent to losing around 1/4 of what I have already paid in.

dootball · 11/01/2022 20:58

Sorry I realised I miswrote part of that - it increases more generously all the time you are still contributing to the pension scheme (by an extra 1.6%) compared to when you leave.

NotAnFA · 16/01/2022 17:05

You currently have 20 years that could, due to the McCloud judgement, be in the final salary scheme.

If you are at the top of the pay scales then that won't suffer too badly unless you were to go on to higher posts in the future.

If you can move to the independent school and get that £7k higher salary for 12 months whilst they are still in the TPS then your existing final salary pension will get a nice boost.

Bear in mind that you have 5 years before you lose the final salary link should you later decide to return to a TPS eligible post.

WombatChocolate · 28/01/2022 14:47

The key is it isn’t just about the percentage the school pay into any type of pension - those pulling out often offer to pay a similar amount into a defined contribution pension.

The key is that defined benefit (which is what teacher pension is) gives you a guaranteed income for life - you know what you’ll get as it’s determined by service and your pay. It will pay out every year after you take it, index linked for inflation and with a survivor pension for your spouse.

The new pension will be defined contribution. The contributions made by employer and employee go into a pot. The pot is invested in the stock market. You know what’s being paid in, but not what it will be worth at the end…that’s determined by stock market performance. And then when you retire, you can leave it invested and choose how much to draw down each year (have to choose so it won’t run out before you die) and what hasn’t been drawn out each year can remain invested. This is in the hope it will grow, but of course some years it will fall. There is no certainty of its value and there’s no certainty of how long you’ll live. It’s not index linked for inflation and it’s not got a spousal benefit when you die.
The alternative with to draw down is to buy an annuity…this gives you something like the teacher pension currently does - a guaranteed income for life - and if you pay more can be index linked and spousal pension. Typically £30k from your pot will buy you £1k of pension per year.

To compare, when you look at the teacher pension, someone earning £28k is adding £500 to their pension each year. So, the question is whether someone arming £28k will have combined contributions from themselves and their employer of £15k per year - as that’s what it would cost to buy a £500 pension. It’s highly unlikely to be anywhere near this. And that’s why the teacher pension is so so much better value. It also gives you the certainty that defined contribution or annuities lack…you’d never know the price of an annuity until you’re close to retirement.

Avoid schools without Teacher Pension Scheme. They will tell you about how their new version is flexible and staff can choose how much to pay in - that’s true. They will tell you the school makes a generous contribution to the new scheme - that’s probably true, although the amount they pay in could easily change over time. What they won’t point out is that your monthly retirement income is likely to be significantly lower, and you simply wo t have a guaranteed monthly retirement income that you can spot and identify while you are working…so the certainty the Teacher Pension gives you is lost.

If you’re already in a school where the TPS has been left, I’d leave. It’s hard for some people with kids locally etc. I know that. But if you’re looking for a new job, dont even consider schools outside the TPS unless you’re only looking for the last year or 2 of your career and already have enough pension built up in the TPS…and even then, they would you choose to go for the lesser option.

Honestly, these schools who pulled out, due to financial issues are on a slippery slope. Increasingly it will be hard to recruit quality staff and that isn’t going to help them boost their numbers and provide financial stability. So I would say a school which has withdrawn already has indicated it isn’t in the best shape.

NotAnFA · 28/01/2022 21:46

From the NEU:

Girls’ Day School Trust (GDST) facing first strike in 149-year history

In an historic, unprecedented, unimpeachable strike ballot, NEU teacher members employed in the 23 schools run by GDST, have voted 95 per cent in favour of strike action, on a turn-out of 84 per cent, to defend their pensions.

FoxandFeathers · 29/01/2022 07:32

@WombatChocolate thank you for that brilliant explanation. We are fighting hard for ours at the moment. Reading that has reminded me why!

ElegantPuma · 30/01/2022 08:13

Sending you solidarity @FoxandFeathers

Our governors were surprised we were so upset that one of their first moves was to threaten 'fire and rehire' Hmm. We are still TPS members for now, but who knows long term? All the governors have achieved is to piss off the staff so much that we are now heavily unionised & will soon have a Trade Union Recognition Agreement. They are bricking it at the thought of legally having to negotiate with us Grin !

FoxandFeathers · 30/01/2022 08:31

@ElegantPuma

Sending you solidarity *@FoxandFeathers*

Our governors were surprised we were so upset that one of their first moves was to threaten 'fire and rehire' Hmm. We are still TPS members for now, but who knows long term? All the governors have achieved is to piss off the staff so much that we are now heavily unionised & will soon have a Trade Union Recognition Agreement. They are bricking it at the thought of legally having to negotiate with us Grin !

Good luck to you, too. Governors of Independent schools seem to be expert in the world of business. They have no appreciation of the importance of our pension to us; they tell us their pensions are not final salary. Hard to feel sympathy when they have driven from their multimillion pound houses to tell us that! We have just been issued a H1 form telling us our contracts are up unless we sign a new one with that lovely ‘fire and rehire’ used to us too. Our consultation has been pointless. I just hope our parents support us when it leaks out… strike action looming. Did you apply for the job in the end, OP?
WombatChocolate · 30/01/2022 09:10

So sorry to hear about what is happening in many schools. The stress of it all must be horrible and even if you fight off the pension withdrawal, the relationship and trust with the school must be severely damaged.

Bigger, more financially stable schools are likely to be those who can keep going with the TPS. It’s something to consider when looking for work.

wantmorenow · 07/02/2022 19:38

how old are you?
This guy is an awesome resource - why leaving early can be good

wantmorenow · 07/02/2022 19:42
WombatChocolate · 07/02/2022 20:03

Yes, DiddyDave or Dave fOuntain and his website ‘The Clasroom in RearView’ which is all about teacher pensions is fantastic.

HereTodayHereTomorrow · 08/02/2022 06:39

I work in a private school and have still have my TPS - it transferred automatically and was just on my payslip first month! Ask the HR. Moving to private saved my sanity and my career, I was ready to Chuck in the towel

ElegantPuma · 08/02/2022 13:31

You're very fortunate then @HereTodayHereTomorrow. I guess you don't know that more and more indies are withdrawing from TPS. The 23 Girls' Day School Trust members have just voted strongly in favour of strike action to try to keep theirs - 84% turnout and 95% in favour a striking.

WombatChocolate · 08/02/2022 18:05

Around 80% of independents that were in the TPS before though still remain. It has tended to be the smaller ones and particularly Preps where the leaving has happened. Thats not surprising as they’re more vulnerable financially due to being smaller. It’s probably true to say girls’ schools are also more vulnerable - the GDSThas a variety of very healthy and successful schools and others which do struggle for numbers. Of secondaries that have actually shut down or merged in recent times, many are girls schools.

Currently there are still loads of indies in the TPS. Many will be watching to see what the pension revaluation to be implemented in 2024 will mean for employee contributions, but it’s looking like they might not increase,as the government is being challenged on whether the costs of the McCloud decision should be passed onto the oension schemes, so instead be fu died by government.

Teacher sin independents don’t need to despair yet, but some will need to be willing to move if they wish to keep their pension going, or to consider carefully when applying for new jobs.

So the schools that leave will find the best teachers are less available to them. They will certainly be less attractive as employers.

As a parent, I’d always want to know any I delenent I looked at was in the scheme…otherwise you can expect people leaving and more difficulty in recruiting top staff. Which fee paying parents want that?

Piggywaspushed · 03/01/2023 15:02

I'm just reviving this thread to see if here is any new news or anyone is about . DH's school, part of a large 'charitable' trust has just said they are withdrawing from TPS. He's been teaching over 30 years... not sure what the ramifications are. They have been told they can stay in but this will signal pay cuts and mean different staff on different pay for the same job, presumably.

They poach recruit quite a lot from the state sector so this seems very short sighted!

Nonamenoplacetogo · 03/01/2023 21:07

@Piggywaspushed your dh and colleagues need to get in touch with their union, if there's no school rep then they should contact the local branch for guidance. My friend's private school withdrew from TPS (they went on strike for several days to fight it) and some staff lost over £60k from their pension pots.
The stuff about cuts, more work etc is a smoke screen and emotional blackmail

bojo7 · 03/01/2023 21:50

Sorry to hear this. You don't say what age is your DH. This is quite important.
If he has been teaching 30 years, most of his pension is in the final salary scheme (probably up to March 2022 - you can select to be in the final salary or career-average for the 7 years up to this point ). His pension age to receive this main part of his pension will be 60 and will be based on a "final salary".
(He is now be in the career average scheme and this part of his pension will pay out when he is 67 - unless he takes it early with the associated reduced value).

The "final salary" used for most of his pension will be the better of his actual final year's salary OR the best three inflation-adjusted years in the previous ten years. If he takes a pay cut to stay in TPS, he needs to make sure that he does not let his best years "age out" of the ten. He can check these numbers o his TPS benefits statement. Google Dave Fountain's youtube videos on TPS for a proper explanation of this.

And, of course any pay cut will affect his career average pension proportionately.

If it is easy to match his salary elsewhere and stay in TPS, this is probably the best option financially of course.

I am no expert on TPS and the situation will also depend on what age he plans to stop working and what %cut is proposed by the school.

Sounds like the school is proposing to take advantage of the phased withdrawal option to allow current staff to remain and completely close scheme to new staff? Definitely worth fighting this as some schools have backed down on meeting serious staff resistance.

Piggywaspushed · 03/01/2023 22:01

Thanks both. He's in his 50s and plans to retire in maybe 3 to 4 years or so. He went part time three years ago and knows about the ginal / average salary. He plans to contact union tomorrow. Yes, school is doing the phased thing. He definitely wants to stay in TPS.

NotAnFA · 06/01/2023 08:41

Do get in touch with David Fountain as suggested as he can go through the exact figures with you - he does this voluntarily.

Whilst I would encourage teachers in independent schools to fight to keep the TPS that fight is primarily for the benefit of younger teachers who have their careers ahead of them. For example, a teacher on the final salary scheme who has yet to reach the peak of their career will be the worst affected if they are made to leave the TPS before the "final salary" hits its peak!

I am definitely not a financial adviser and I would suggest he spends a few pounds getting advice from one, just make sure they are familiar with the TPS.

I say this because, for an older member of staff, who - I presume - is not looking to gain any significant promotions in the next 3 to 4 years before he leaves the effect on HIS final salary pension is going to be minimal. With most independent schools offering to put in around 16% to the private scheme (compared to many private companies who put in the legal minimum of 3%) on top of his own ~10% this could lead to a significant fund in even just 4 years. It might then be used to delay taking his teaching pension so that he gets less of an actuarial reduction and so make up for missing the last 3-4 years from it.

Indeed, I would check out the actual £ involved in being out of the last 3-4 years.
There is probably NO difference to his final salary pension since pay rises have been, and are expected to be below inflation in the near future. That leaves what he is currently adding to his career average pension. i.e. 1/57th of his salary.

So, divide his salary by 57 and multiply it by 3 or 4. Then, if he is looking to take his pension before 67 make the reduction for taking it early, i.e. at 55 he'd get 56%...so roughly half the amount you worked out. Compare that to the lower reduction his already accrued pension would get by leaving it longer before being claimed.

Piggywaspushed · 06/01/2023 09:42

Thank you!

I thought we had all moved to average salary now?

He has asked for an appointment and the school says they can meet an independent financial adviser. I am assuming this person is genuinely independent...

You are right , though, it is the younger staff who have only just joined from the state sector who are the most aggrieved.