Saying no to progression?

[Aprildaisyx]

Hello everyone.
I feel like all I do at the moment is work. I’m on M6 and part of my appraisal this year is going through threshold to UPS/a middle management post.. however I don’t think I want it anymore.
I’ve just turned 30, I want to start a family this year, spend quality time with my husband, see my friends and family more.. . Start my hobbies again and have a bloody life outside of school again!
I’ve had a lot of umming and arring about what to do… but even when I look at the pay I’d probably take home an extra £50-100 a month after student loan, tax, pension etc.. and for what?
I don’t see the point being successful at work when i can’t have a life outside it.

Does anyone else feel the same?
I completely understand teaching will never be a 9-5 but I wake up at 5:45 and get to school around 7 and don’t leave till 6 most evenings. I work through half of my lunch too and I’m just not willing to give up any more of my time / life to my job…
Any heads / SLT is this me committing career suicide? Or is it a fair point for me to say actually at this point of my life my family, friends, health are more important to me?

I am the same age and like stage as you- hoping to start ttc in the next year.

I have taught for 9 years and am in primary. I have a middle management role after similar deliberating...

I considered the best way to go for quite a bit before my UPS/ middle leader meeting.

Firstly wondering if it's best to climb the ladder as much as possible pre children for max pay and less pressure to then be progressing/moving jobs after when you have a family. Equally if it's worth progressing for what is not much pay always and if it is truly what I want or just what I think is expected of me.

In the end my thoughts are that I want to get myself into a role pre baby which balances good pay, manageable workload and career satisfaction (recognising sometimes reward comes with hard work and a bit of short term pain but I don't want to be burnt out). I also want it to be relatively manageable coming back post baby and realistically it's going to be a few years balancing things around v young family. For me, full time class teaching with no other focuses was extremely full on and I needed the more whole school overview role to keep me motivated.

I feel the workload around this completely depends on your school though. Mine gives a good amount of regular time each week for middle management roles out of class. It also pays extra for subject responsibility/leadership roles on top of just UPS banding. I have then also continued climbing the UPS scale. This makes it all worth it for me financially. I know not all schools do this. I do feel some of our middle management roles are actually more manageable than being a full time class teacher- probably does depend on the person though. There is also the factor to consider that UPS can make you very expensive should you wish to move schools. I'm happy where I am so decided this isn't a problem for me.

As I have got more experienced I have found there are some class teacher requirements which you learn to cut corners on without impacting pupils, I spend a lot less time on planning etc as I have the basics there and just adjust or innovate. But there are lots of ongoing, inflexible nonnegotiables in class. As well as it being relentless and exhausting especially if you are lower primary.

With my management role bits i am a bit more office based in parts of the week and this work can be prioritised depending on what else is going on that week as lots of it is long term development work. I don't find it stressful in the same way.

But that's me- you know your school and what will make you feel satisfied. You are right £50-100 per month if it is a lot more work and compromising your life satisfaction js not worth it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a class teacher. It doesn't mean post children you can't then progress if you want. Lots of people don't go into teaching until later and your class teaching is building up lots of experience.

Hope this ramble of my perspective/thoughts helps!!

Yes I completely understand. My aim was always to climb as high as I could before starting a family. At school I’ve done lots of extra bits for the school as a whole (lunch time games, training dinner supervisors, science co ordinator etc) but never had any extra time to do them. At one point there was TLRs payment for year or two long projects but we don’t have them anymore.
The next step for me from a class teacher would be a year leader role which at my school is you’re still class based but just do timetabling, homework, meeting agendas etc for the year group (were a 4 form entry).. which I don’t think I’d find hard at all but it’s just extra stuff to do when I need to start looking after myself more. I’m primary too I’m in 6 this year with a very high SEND/need class who do need a lot of extra planning for etc so maybe that’s why I’m a bit anti extra work.
I just want to be able to cook a decent meal and go to the gym during the week aha.
But even with UPS - UPS staff now have extra meetings and projects to complete and at this point in my life I think for my own mental and physical well being I just need to say no.. but then I have niggle in the back of my head that says I’m just giving up. Especially when I see people who have been teaching the same time as me and are in management etc but mehhh- maybe it’s something I can look at in a few years time!

Hearing your position and school type it sounds like it's completely understandable to want to just stay where you are. Year 6 is amazing experience in itself and shows your capable should you wish to progress later.

I was bored in my year 4 role in quite a cosy primary. It was hard work but not challenging. Hence needed more for sanity. That sounds the opposite to you!

*you're !

I've been on m6 for seven years. I have no interest in career development. My situation is different I'm nearly fifty, part time with two teenage children. Before my family I was on the leadership scale. I climbed the ladder very quickly to deputy headship. I have no interest in promotion now. It's great to get as far as you can before starting a family x

Oh NO!
UPS is NOT about taking on additional responsibility, the whole point of the upper pay range was to reward the experience and skills of teachers who you WANT to keep in the classroom. Schools should not be asking anything more of a teacher who is on the UPS compared to one who is on the MPS.

Take a look at the STPCD and Burgundy book for the conditions of service, in particular the requirements relating to when TLR payments are justified - if you school is making those a requirement of moving to the UPS then they are contrary to the standard teaching contracts and should be rectified.

@mrsnw

I've been on m6 for seven years. I have no interest in career development. My situation is different I'm nearly fifty, part time with two teenage children. Before my family I was on the leadership scale. I climbed the ladder very quickly to deputy headship. I have no interest in promotion now. It's great to get as far as you can before starting a family x

If your leadership post ended 7 years ago then, unless you have already had a break in service/pension, you should really look at what is happening to your final salary pension.

One of the calculations uses your best 3 out of the last 10 years and since you've been on the lower paid post for 7 your best 3 will start to fall OFF this calculation unless you take action to preserve it.

Absolutely agree NotAnFA, especially if you are in an LEA school. Academies can do/say as they wish with regards to additional responsibilities, contracts and workload, and is the main reason I won't work in one.

I stopped teaching in 2006 to have my first child and didn't return to teaching until 2014. I know it really buggered my pension up but I didn't have the stress of working with two children under five. So swings and roundabouts I guess! What should I be looking at? I've only just joint the pension scheme online to see what I have paid in 🙈

@mrsnw

I stopped teaching in 2006 to have my first child and didn't return to teaching until 2014. I know it really buggered my pension up but I didn't have the stress of working with two children under five. So swings and roundabouts I guess! What should I be looking at? I've only just joint the pension scheme online to see what I have paid in 🙈

I would be interested in understanding this more.

Any advice Pension wise on the difference long term financially in not working between/with young children, going part time or staying full time- only taking 1 yr maternity for each child ?

Also good point on the true meaning of UPS. From experience academies, independents and sometimes smaller schools are the ones insisting on responsibility with UPS.

@mrsnw

I stopped teaching in 2006 to have my first child and didn't return to teaching until 2014. I know it really buggered my pension up but I didn't have the stress of working with two children under five. So swings and roundabouts I guess! What should I be looking at? I've only just joint the pension scheme online to see what I have paid in 🙈

Ah, yes, that has scuppered it. The more than 5 year break means you don't benefit from the McCloud judgement either. I believe you will have benefit in 3 different TP schemes. Up to 2006 - in the NPA60 Final Salary scheme. 2014-March 2015 - in the NPA65 Final Salary scheme. April 2015 onward - in the Career Average scheme.

Your 2006 will be fixed using the salaries you had in the years 1996-2006, so nothing you can do to alter that.
Your 2014-2015 service though will use your salaries from the last 10 years, i.e. currently 2014-2022. It's this service that could still do something about, but given that it's only a year or two it may not be worth that much. However I would still take a look a the figures, after all why miss out if you don't have to.

How do I ensure that I do not miss out @NotAnFA? Thank you x

It really depends on your school. I'm on UPS and don't have any more responsibility than on M6. I have a friend who is a reception teacher in another school in the same position. When I tell colleagues at my old school this, they can't believe it - everyone on UPS there has some additional title like LKS2 lead.

Crickey, primary schools sound like they massively take advantage! I'm UPS in a secondary and like @UpDownRound I don't have any extra responsibilities. We just need to make a whole school contribution, so I run a club. I personally wouldn't worry about taking on more now unless you're happy to, the opportunities will still be there in a few years.

They do Orchid - I really believe primary teachers are generally underpaid compared to secondary colleagues unfortunately. Been meaning to start a thread on it for a while but it's a sensitive topic and I wanted to word it carefully! I certainly know my workload as a bog standard primary class teacher is considerably higher than a non-core subject secondary head of department friend. My hours when I was a primary SENCO were an absolute joke.

I went on to UPS1 a couple of years ago, I'm in a primary school, seems like others as standard you have to already lead a subject and run a club, those things don't get rewarded in primary unfortunately! So to prove I was contributing to the whole school I worked closely with the school improvement partner to look at how assessment systems across science and non-core could be tightened up, I also attended some courses and from this ran CPD for staff. Luckily the humanities subject lead was also progressing to UPS so we shared some of the responsibility for delivery the CPD which took the pressure off me a bit.
As soon as I got onto UPS1 my head was telling me what I needed to do to get to UPS2 which involved overseeing subject leader files to make sure they fit the standard approach we're using in school and helping subject leaders with anything they might need with them. When I go back after maternity leave I'm going to tell the head I'm not interested in UPS2 for those responsibilities, it's too much for too little reward and not something that I'm particularly interested in, also feels a bit micro-managey. If there's other stuff that I'm passionate about that would count towards it I'll consider it but mostly I just want to be an excellent classroom teacher and I find that takes up all my time!