Angry about being asked if I had chn in pre-interview chat with Exec HT

[MonsteraMother]

I'm really not sure what to do. Went to visit a school with a view to apply for a senior position in large MAT. Thought I was going for a tour with HT. Head of the MAT also popped in and started grilling me. What are your qualifications? Where do you live? What does your husband do? Do you have chn? How many? How old are they?

I didn't mind the other questions but the ones about having children has really wound me up! I felt put on the spot and wish I'd had a good response like 'what is your reason for asking?'

My DC are still relatively young and I feel I have to hide their existence during interviews as I feel the perception is that only men or spinsters can be committed enough to the school to hold senior positions.

I really liked the school but feel like I've already been judged and won't be shortlisted after being 'outed' as a mum. I'm bloody good at what I do and being a mum has made me a better HT as I now see parent perspective. Husband holds the fort so well at home that I never feel torn between home/work.

Would you apply or write it off?

Trust your gut.

(Spinsters though- really? come on).

Ha! Yeah! It was a bad choice of words. I mean unmarried women with no dependents!

I was going to reply having held multiple very senior roles in multiple MATs and LAs, working with those with a range of family backgrounds. Then saw the word spinster. That attitude itself would put me off employing you as any senior role with me. You clearly have as much prejudice linked to circumstance, as you believed the CEO to have about you.

@MonsteraMother

Ha! Yeah! It was a bad choice of words. I mean unmarried women with no dependents!

I think that you need to sort your own prejudicial attitude and flippancy first. Attitudes and beliefs of course impacting leadership behaviours.

Hmmm, not sure about that but any advice from you or just a grumble for using a word which implies an unmarried woman who lives and breathes work and is unlikely to ever have a family?

@MonsteraMother

Hmmm, not sure about that but any advice from you or just a grumble for using a word which implies an unmarried woman who lives and breathes work and is unlikely to ever have a family?

The prejudicial attitude and edge of derogatory comment still exists. I’d sort that out. We only know our own situations to be able to comment. Some organisations actively seek those who demonstrate a wider life outside of work (regardless of marital status!) It might be true for you but I’d feel a bit uncomfortable hearing that it was being a mum that made you “now see parent perspective”. I’d modify that slightly - many teachers and school leaders of course seeing it before they have children - due to empathy and experience of a range of scenarios. You may have increased sympathy on becoming a parent but you can empathise before. Becoming a mum might have enhanced ability to see from parent perspective. Conscious though our role is for children above all.

Anyway, going to a formal selection process (although in your case it was done on an informal tour), such questions you shared from the CEO should not be asked and are irrelevant to capability of doing the role. It’s always got to be -who is the best candidate for the job? If you think you’re the one for the role, apply and impress in the selection process. If your gut feeling is strong based on comments, then don’t. Trust the feeling if it’s strong. I wish I’d walked from two selection processes on seeing the selection panel lead wink on greeting at one candidate (who did get the role, over the internal
candidate and the unknown external) and on a senior leader approaching me and saying “You know they’re looking for a…” (they narrowed down to two of by end of day!).

If you want the job answer the questions they don’t ask. You may think due to… that… however… my husband…” Go there on it. The most senior role I’ve held, I filled in what I knew they’d really want to know but were possibly wondering how to ask without getting in a HR pickle.

Thanks Birmingham Bloke, that's useful advice. Of course, if anyone had told me (pre-kids) that having children made them a better HT then I'd have been quite pissed off but I do think having your own children helps one grow in other ways that make you better at your job. Of course there will be people who will disagree with me and there will be people for whom this is untrue.

I have decided not to apply as I fear I would not be happy being ruled with an iron fist. The head of trust seems to have picked HT's that are 'yes' people and I am not that.

Thanks again for constructive comments ☺️