Proposed longer days

[BeingATwatItsABingThing]

Can I preface this by requesting that this does not turn into a teacher bashing thread please!

www.tes.com/news/exclusive-8am-6pm-extended-school-day-table?fbclid=IwAR38Yzx74z2xuATlA8L9XmWFWzyiq1K47j3UaFCYHGyLb79rjeG9kWgXUeA

I’ve just seen this this morning. If this comes into fruition, I will be leaving teaching. I can only just cope with my workload with our school day as it is (8:35 - 3:15). I spend hours every night marking and prepping for the next day and I spend at least one weekend day catching up with planning and marking before I even think about catching up on housework and life admin. My children get a really raw deal from me being a teacher and I don’t have any more time I’m willing to take from them.

They’re suggesting making the days 30 minutes longer and optional 8am - 6pm days. We have an early finish on a Friday to recoup some costs from our ridiculous budget cuts and the article says they would want to get rid of those.

Even if I think about this from a parenting perspective, I don’t want my DDs in school any longer than they already are.

What are other teacher’s thoughts?

It's bullshit. It's flannel, smoke, mirrors and a steaming pile of bullshit.

It's the Government trying to appear to give a shit about disadvantaged children with this token 'catch up' programme (catch up on what?! The arbitrary expectations put in by...er, the Government? )

I suspect that the voluntary 8-6pm will be the route they take. Which is, of course, nothing to do with children's education. It's blatantly childcare.

There are children at my school that do these hours already as we offer wrap around care. The majority of them have parents who work and are not the most disadvantaged ones. So who is this bright idea actually going to benefit???! Not the kids, that's for sure and certainly not the ones that need extra support.

Additionally, if they add on a compulsory extra half hour, won't they will need to rip up the 1265 teaching hours per year agreement?! They'd need to reissue teaching contracts as 195 days x 30 mins works out as quite a bit more than currently contracted.

Extra funding for staffing - yes please.
More specialist staff to support children with SEN - absolutely. Funding to cut class sizes - amazing.
Extra half hour a day - utterly pointless.

To keep up with workload I currently arrive at 7.30am. Small school so because of covid teachers only get 30 mins ‘lunch’ break, during which I rush through marking half a set of books, clean tables and set up for the afternoon. Then the children come back and I serve them lunch, while eating something standing up supervising. I then frantically mark the rest of the books 3.30-4.40, fly home to collect and actually see our toddler, put her to bed at 6.30, eat dinner and then work 7-10 planning etc (I try for 10pm, but currently 29 weeks pregnant so don’t always make it). This is all so I can have a ‘normal weekend’.

If they extend schools for half an hour a day fine, but I shall be asking to drop my (unpaid) subject leadership responsibilities to make up for it.

Shan’t be volunteering for 8am-6pm, because then my toddler would see me for a maximum of an hour a day Monday to Friday.

Pretty sure this is a headline grabbing gimmick by government that’s actually more about childcare than anything else (though if they really want to ‘help’ working families, they need to look at childcare for the under fives more urgently, that’s what drives parents out of work!)

Hmm. I think these changes will happen, but it will be a piecemeal approach. Academies are not bound by the burgundy book, and almost 80% of secondaries are now academies. Some academies are already starting to tinker with teacher contracts. It will be interesting to see how it plays out, but I imagine it will lead to the further denigration of teaching as a profession.

Extra funding for staffing - yes please.
More specialist staff to support children with SEN - absolutely. Funding to cut class sizes - amazing.
Extra half hour a day - utterly pointless.

Couldn’t agree more. If they ploughed this money into staffing to ensure schools had plenty of qualified teachers and TAs, it could be really good. My school is struggling with a lack of support staff. We have one TA per year group (60 children) and they are also 1:1s. The amount of time the class actually has a TA is minimal. In the afternoon, they run interventions but they are interrupted constantly so the TA can cover a class. It’s ridiculous.

@MasterGland

Hmm. I think these changes will happen, but it will be a piecemeal approach. Academies are not bound by the burgundy book, and almost 80% of secondaries are now academies. Some academies are already starting to tinker with teacher contracts. It will be interesting to see how it plays out, but I imagine it will lead to the further denigration of teaching as a profession.

I totally agree. Hmmm, wonder why Gavin wants every school to be an academy?! Would be very convenient. Could it be because the pay & conditions can be cheerfully ignored? It's fucking outrageous.

@theluckiest

I am desperate to avoid working in an academy for as long as possible. There’s a monopolising academy where I am and trying to avoid applying for their schools is really hard. I have heard so many awful things about them from so many different people.

Oh, me too @BeingATwatItsABingThing

I work in a truly lovely community primary school. I've heard horror stories about some of the academy chains particularly.

A few years ago, many of our local schools planned to become a MAT. Parents fought tooth & nail to stop it and it did. I have a horrible feeling that we were all just delaying the inevitable.

@theluckiest

My DD’s school became part of a MAT after she started. I’m not happy about it.

My school has many faults but it’s not an academy.

TA year 2. My kids have a definite expiration time on effective learning and it's already before the end of their current day. No way could they handle more. And the times I've been at after school club I've seen how hard that length of a day is for kids. They need downtime and quality time with their families, not more directed time.

@Beachhuts90

You’re absolutely right. We get to about 2:30 and the children can’t focus as well as they can in the morning. From then, we focus on tidying up, whole class reading (I read to them), quick activities that are very active for them and getting ready for home time. Starting another lesson then to finish at 4:00 would be pointless.

The main difference?

Also much longer holidays. I've considered private - in real hours work, during term time I'd probably do the same hours as I do now (even if in private I'd be more directed/contact time as opposed to being at home in my spare room), but I'd get 2 months off in the summer, a month at Easter and Xmas. Much nicer.

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

The main difference?

Also much longer holidays. I've considered private - in real hours work, during term time I'd probably do the same hours as I do now (even if in private I'd be more directed/contact time as opposed to being at home in my spare room), but I'd get 2 months off in the summer, a month at Easter and Xmas. Much nicer.

This would be great if my DDs were older. They’re 7 and 8mo so don’t go to bed late and still need mummy. I also don’t want to miss that much of them each day.

Whilst I love the holidays, I would rather have my evenings and weekends back. I panic if I haven’t worked over the weekend because that means I’ve fallen behind. I can’t live like this much longer.

I wouldn't actually mind school hours being 8am - 4.30... IF teachers stopped teaching at 1.30. PPA every afternoon, chats with kids and so on. Children do the arts, sports etc, with proper coaches and specialist teachers. Everyone leaves at 4.30, no one takes any work home. No one.

I also don’t want to miss that much of them each day.

Yes, my child informed me on Thursday (when I picked her up from afterschool club at 5.30 - last man standing - first time I'd seen her since Wednesday night), that she "spends loads more time with daddy anyway, I don't see you much".

Ouch!

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

I wouldn't actually mind school hours being 8am - 4.30... IF teachers stopped teaching at 1.30. PPA every afternoon, chats with kids and so on. Children do the arts, sports etc, with proper coaches and specialist teachers. Everyone leaves at 4.30, no one takes any work home. No one.

You may have shared this idea in the republic before and I remember liking it then. Yes, still long for the children, but this would be the way to do it. And this would also throw a lot of work to people like arts practitioners who will have had a tough time finding work this pandemic.

Really can't believe 8-6 is being suggested by anyone. Absolutely ridiculous.

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

I wouldn't actually mind school hours being 8am - 4.30... IF teachers stopped teaching at 1.30. PPA every afternoon, chats with kids and so on. Children do the arts, sports etc, with proper coaches and specialist teachers. Everyone leaves at 4.30, no one takes any work home. No one.

I could get on board with this. You could also spend one on one time with the children in the afternoon, looking through work from the morning or just getting to know them.

[quote BeingATwatItsABingThing]@theluckiest

I am desperate to avoid working in an academy for as long as possible. There’s a monopolising academy where I am and trying to avoid applying for their schools is really hard. I have heard so many awful things about them from so many different people.[/quote]
I work in an Academy and it’s fantastic. They look after staff and have prided themselves in reducing workload for teachers so that work life balance is much better.

Don’t rule out all Academy’s. Some are much better workplaces.

@MacCoffee

I’m glad you work for a good one. Good schools that really concern themselves with teacher mental health are hard to come by.

I'm a trainee doing my PGCE so not an expert but it seems clear to me that this is about using schools and free childcare. 8-6 hours would fit better around full time work, and these days it's so common for both parents to work full time.

Surely it would be better to invest in better after school clubs and enrichment activities for families who need this option? I'm in Y2 ans by the time we finish at 3.10 they are tired, they work hard all day and beyond this time the learning wouldn't be the best.

Work to rule time! When are we going to plan for extra lessons and do the assessments?

It is shocking given that adults complain about working long hours. Let's not kid ourselves that this suggestion of 8-6 is for the benefit of children - it is all about getting adults into the workplace or for parents to have time to go to the gym/hairdressers etc. it is child cruelty.

Everyone saying it’s about childcare is absolutely right but schools have been considered glorified childcare by parents for a long time. It’s why so many of them have no respect for us.

Hmm .... most secondaries are now academies and it isn’t all bad, although some are awful and some aren’t.

I doubt this will happen. I think it’s literally just a way to force primary schools not to close early.

@BeingATwatItsABingThing

Everyone saying it’s about childcare is absolutely right but schools have been considered glorified childcare by parents for a long time. It’s why so many of them have no respect for us.

To be fair I don’t think it means parents have no respect. Some do but not because ‘childcare.’

Schools are childcare. It isn’t their only purpose, obviously, but they do provide childcare.

To be fair I don’t think it means parents have no respect. Some do but not because ‘childcare.’

Maybe that’s just around where I live and the posts I’ve seen on MN.

I suspect what they will try to do, is suggest 8-6, sit back and let the unions go crazy about that so that the Daily Fail can utterly demonise us, then say they ‘relent’ and will ONLY increase it by half an hour. Presumably they’ll have to tear up the 1265 though?!

Either way, I’m hoping we can strike. I know the rules around strikes were changed a few years ago though so you need a large proportion of union members to support a movement to get one though.