Which job.

[Ploughingthrough]

I am in the unexpected position of holding two job offers that were both offered to me on Friday after some online interviews. I've no idea what to do and I need to decide by the end of Monday. A nice dilemma to have but a dilemma nonetheless. For context, I am currently HoD of a non-core subject but don't want to be - I either want to step down to line teacher for now, or take a different type of responsibility. I have two children who by the time a job would start would be 6 and 8 (year 2 and year 4).

Job A
15 minute commute.
School is 'RI' and in an area of deprivation.
The faculty which I would be joining has a great reputation and good facilities.
The job is as a 'line teacher' - no HoD or other responsibilities.
Small sixth form, my subject is not taught at A-level but they offer an alternative vocational qualification.
I know a member of the SLT and think very highly of her.
The Headteacher was extremely nice and friendly during interview and I got good vibes and the feeling of a happy culture from the panel.

Job B
40-50 minute commute traffic dependent
Good, semi-rural school that has a very good general reputation and an active sixth form that delivers my subject.
Not HoD but job also comes with a significant pastoral responsibility which is paid on a TLR.
The Headteacher was not especially open or friendly and the interview felt a lot more intense than job A. But this is zoom so it's not necessarily representative. The interview panel in general did not give off super friendly vibes.

WWYD?!

On the face of it since you're saying that you want a step down then A makes sense and from the way you write I get the feeling that you are more positive about that job than B.

However as you were HoD and B has pastoral responsibility then that would be the change in direction that you said, so the TLR doesn't necessarily cause issues there?

My worry with A, whilst you say there's a friendly vibe would be the RI. There is without doubt going to be a LOT of pressure both to get back into good and stay there, because the consequences of not doing would be severe. I feel that whilst during the interview they were happy and positive you need to be mindful that they will be very much wanting you and likely selling them to you. Be mindful that you're more highly qualified than the job entails, so I'm sure that there will have been an element of them trying to impress you despite the RI, as much as you impressing them.

This said you say you know a member of SLT - how well do you know them? Would you be able to find out about this from them or do you not have this sort of relationship?

To me, even though you didn't get as positive vibes about the people I have to say Job B does sound a more solid job, and less stress than the RI issue. Me personally, I wouldn't want to get involved with RI, especially after all the lockdowns and time off because I think it would be a lot to come back from.

Commute wise only you can answer that. 50 mins is a bit far for me - my children are the same age as yours pretty much and I would want to be home sooner than that as when I've worked further away for a brief bit of supply when I returned to work 50 mins was too long for them but I don't know if anyone else could pick them up sooner for you?

Good luck deciding though and congrats for getting two offers - as you say, great position to be in ! They both sound like good jobs so, enjoy which ever you take!

Thanks so much OpheliasCrayon. Its really valuable to hear your thoughts on RI, I've never worked anywhere less than 'good' it's not an experience I yet have. My friend loves working there, says it has its challenges but is improving and the people are great. She is high up though so the financial rewards will be good!
The other school, on the face of it yes I think it is a bit better. The pastoral responsibility is something I would like to have a go at and the school has always been 'good' 50 mins is a long commute though...

I've not worked in RI either, but I turned down a job I was offered because of it. It was through and agency and they REALLY sold it to me/ tried to paper over it . Head was desperate (pretty obvious). Well actually they were in special measures... I was blunt about it to be honest - I said I've got two young children I don't have the time to give to you that I know you will need from your staff to turn this around. I also had seen in the ofsted that there were frequent incidents of inappropriate restraint (Im SEN) and again I said I'm sorry I can't work with people who think that that's acceptable.

So I mean that's slightly different as was SM and there was illegal behaviour going on ...

But still - if your friend says it's improving then that's good - schools can and do improve so thats a positive if it is. I do think though it is still work seriously considering especially because your children are young and need time from you as well, but then on the flip side you were HoD and this isn't so that will buy you some time back.

Also with regards to RI check what it is that's done it on the ofsted - if it's heavily mentioning things that would related to paperwork and documentation etc then that's going to take a lot more man hours out of class. If it's behaviour / quality of teaching then that may require more frequent planning documentation (thinking lesson plans and daily plans rather than mid term plans only for example) which would again be a lot lot lot more work.

If the RI is to do with management issues then that wouldn't necessarily affect you as a class teacher - so take a look at what it is because it might not directly relate to you in the role you're going for.

This said I've worked in outstanding as well for my current and last job and that's also high pressure so it's not just like RI is the only time - obviously with outstanding there's the constant pressure to remain as such which builds up as well. Although I found that much much more in my last school to the point it got totally overwhelming, but my current school is a lot more chilled.

Have you been able to spend any time in th school to get a feel for it? I was very fortunate to have done some supply in the school I work in now so I could find out what it was like because due to covid I would have taken the job based only on the zoom interview and not having spent time there. If you have had time to visit the school - does it feel like the kids and staff are happy / enjoying themselves etc?

Job B still sounds a bit better to me I think with less worries about extra work combined with your young family although with traffic that 50 mins could become over an hour and time is precious

Thank you OpheliasCrayon the school's latest ofsted is RI for every area except behaviour. Main criticisms is low expectations and disadvantaged pupils not making progress. This was from 3 years ago, although their ofsted reports since 2010 are RI... A monitoring visit from late last year was broadly positive but quite Covid-19 focused. Do you think this would all translate into a super high workload? I do not teach a core subject.

Unfortunately I cannot visit any school - we are overseas until June and for obvious reasons can't travel before our 1 way ticket then. So whatever job I take will be a bit of a flyer as visiting is not possible. eek.

@Ploughingthrough

Thank you OpheliasCrayon the school's latest ofsted is RI for every area except behaviour. Main criticisms is low expectations and disadvantaged pupils not making progress. This was from 3 years ago, although their ofsted reports since 2010 are RI... A monitoring visit from late last year was broadly positive but quite Covid-19 focused. Do you think this would all translate into a super high workload? I do not teach a core subject.

Unfortunately I cannot visit any school - we are overseas until June and for obvious reasons can't travel before our 1 way ticket then. So whatever job I take will be a bit of a flyer as visiting is not possible. eek.

What subject do you teach?

My gut feeling if it is across the board and has been from 2010 would be yes that would be an exceptionally high workload.

(Please someone step in and correct me if I'm wrong though!)

I would expect there to be frequent observations and learning walks, i would strongly suspect that you would need to be providing at the least weekly and midterm plans but I wouldn't be surprised if you needed daily plans as well.

Has the ofsted mentioned any safeguarding issues ? As that would also be a massive red flag - just you've said it's RI across the board and so that would potentially include safeguarding

I won't lie, at this point if you could cope with the commute I would be strongly considering job B, especially if you haven't been able to visit the schools.

Please don't just take what I'm saying though!! I would hate to be wrong etc or suggest the wrong thing but... I mean, I personally wouldn't take A with young children especially if your aim was to drop down responsibility from HoD. I also really like the pastoral side of things so to me that's attractive as well for B, but that's just me!

It says safeguarding is effective- there doesnt seem to be a judgement for that, just some sentences saying its okay. Hmm sounds like itll be a bit of a hassle if that's how an RI school operates. I am leaning towards job B, back in the UK we have a fair bit of family help so I think I could just about hack the commute. Google says 38 mins and I've added 10 for traffic!
My DH is not a teacher, but has concerns about me working in a difficult school and the stress that it could bring, but as I say he isnt in education.
I am also drawn towards the pastoral element- it's a HoY post which would be a different way to use my leadership skills. I never meant to be an HoD (fell into it via maternity leave) and it really isnt where I imagined myself although it has built a lot of skills.

Safeguarding being effective is good. If you start getting RI on safeguarding that is a surefire way into special measures in so far as I know.

What subject is it that you teach?

Music - the number one decimated by covid subject! But not E-bacc which comes under the most scrutiny I should imagine.

I did my NQT and RQT in an RI school and loved it. There was a real ‘pulling together’ spirit and we got loads of support and training from the LA. When it went to Good I felt like I had been involved in something really worthwhile.

I think it depends on why you don’t want to be a HoD. I think ‘significant pastoral responsibility’ (I’m assuming this is head of year or something) would have a higher workload than a head of a non core subject. Plus the bigger commute.

You come across more positive about school A.

@Fallulah

I did my NQT and RQT in an RI school and loved it. There was a real ‘pulling together’ spirit and we got loads of support and training from the LA. When it went to Good I felt like I had been involved in something really worthwhile.

I think it depends on why you don’t want to be a HoD. I think ‘significant pastoral responsibility’ (I’m assuming this is head of year or something) would have a higher workload than a head of a non core subject. Plus the bigger commute.

You come across more positive about school A.

I do still definately agree with @fallulah that you sound more positive about A.

Its not really the workload of HoD that I mind. I'm just over writing and re-writing schemes of work, rehearsal schedules, assessment criteria, being responsible for all the extra curricular. I like teaching the subject and contributing to the extra curricular, I just dont enjoy being HoD. It's a bit hard to explain because I dont really know exactly what it is, it just sucks my enjoyment out of the subject a bit. I like leadership and supporting colleagues and children, just prefer the idea of doing this a different way.
Thank you both for your thoughts!

Well, good luck for whatever you decide and I hope that you're very happy both back in the UK and in your new job?

I meant ! Not ? !!

I have worked in RI and my experience was not a good one. I was SLT though, in a team that wasn't really pulling together, so maybe felt the pressure more than classroom teachers did.

10 years is a really long time to be in RI. I thought if schools didn't go back to good within a certain time frame they went into a category?

I would just chip in and say that I have worked at:
Schools that were RI
Schools that were good
Schools that were inadequate

They all had their pressures but these were not proportionate to their OFSTED category. It is far more important to consider the people you are actually working with and for, as well as the general ethos of the school. It's incredibly hard to judge from online interviews alone, but I would suggest that you go with your gut feeling.

reefedsail I think they were just subjected to one of those virtual Ofsted that check out the online learning. I suspect in normal times that would have been a normal Ofsted tbus may have got them to Good (or not!).
I am reassured by my friend on the SLT, I worked with her at a previous school and she line managed my dept. I dont think she would tell me it was a nice place to work if it wasnt. But I am going to message her and ask her about the planning requirements in the school given that it is RI. I think this is an important point that you have raised and I will check it out before I take anything.
The other school is better on paper for sure, and HoY would be an interesting challenge. With my kids at their age, the commute is putting me off though. I think if they were both a short commute I'd er on the side of caution and go for school B. I've still got a few hours to decide!

When is the deadline ?

School A headteacher asked if I would let them know by 3pm today

What did you decide @Ploughingthrough?

I decided to take job B. I did a bit more research and feel that my workload in a school that is struggling to get out of RI would be pretty high and I dont want to be in a permanent state of stress waiting for another ofsted.
The commute is the only negative to job B but DH has a fairly flexible job and we have very helpful parents so I think we will be able to manage. If not then we can always look at moving! Thanks so much to all of you for helping me think it through

Congratulations! I hope this is the start of a really happy new move in your career for you and I hope the move back to the UK goes well.

Thanks OpheliasCrayon!

Congratulations OP. I think you have done the right thing thinking carefully about the RI issue. Good to have something in the bag too as I'm sure moving has its own stresses!

Good luck!

I hope it's the right decision! Even if I do it for a few years then move on to something with a less arduous commute I'm sure it will be a good experience.
Now, onto the absolute drama of the actual move! Thanks for this lovely supportive thread it's been really helpful.