Primary vs. Secondary when school experience isn't possible...

[justmental]

Posted this in the wrong place by accident so reposting here!

Hello all, I am looking at doing a PGCE starting September 2021 but struggling to decide either way with primary or secondary. I work as an LSA in a primary currently. I love the school environment and I think it has confirmed that teaching is the role for me, however im just not sure which age! I love the children I work with, they make me laugh every day. I worry though that id perhaps end up finding it annoying and want to use my brain a bit more. At least with older children/teenagers you can have more of a conversation and problems are real and solvable not just crying over a stolen pencil etc etc. Im also apprehensive about having to teach every subject under the sun as i'm sure all the planning and keeping on top of the syllabus is utterly immense.

I have tried to get into a secondary but unfortunately (and understandably) they cant have anyone in at the minute, and likely wont be able to before the deadline for applications. I am therefore a little bit stuck as to what to do, its either take a guess and hope i get accepted without experience or wait another year and apply for 2022 (which ideally i dont want to do, im 24 now and it just feels like im dithering).

The secondary subject im interested in is either Maths or Biology (Biology based degree but A* maths a-level and loved the subject). Is anyone a secondary teacher who could tell me a bit more about it? Has anyone done both, how do they compare in terms of workload, day to day activities etc.?

TIA

I do both but in primary as a specialist rather than Jack of all the trades. I trained as a secondary teacher and enjoy exam classes and the fact that up the top end, I get to talk about stuff I love day in day out. At primary, the KS1 kids are amazing and I have genuine fun teaching and I laugh a lot. For me, the marking and accountability in primary is far less data driven but that probably isn’t the case in all primaries. Observations in both senior and primary and people telling you how to suck eggs is common!

What I don’t enjoy as much is years 5 through to 9 where hormones and boundary testing drive many a young person and I’m forced to crowd control before I can actually teach. If I could do it all again with hindsight I would early years train or, possibly, try and get a job in a 6th form only.

Maths is a shortage subject for secondary. You might need to do a SKE but the financial incentives are there and run into thousands (although I would check that, years since I looked at it). Depending on where you are located, primary jobs would likely be more difficult to secure but maths teachers are in short supply. If you are ambitious, there is probably more money in secondary with TLRs.

Clear as mud!

Bursary info here

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/funding-my-teacher-training/bursaries-and-scholarships-for-teacher-training

You would be better off training in maths but that wouldn’t stop you teaching biology if you really wanted to.

Would you be happy teaching all three sciences to KS4? In most schools, timetabling means this is what you have to do regardless of specialism. Obviously you get trained on teaching out of specialism, but it is harder work (or I think it is, anyway). You train as a teacher of biology/chemistry/physics, but you are mostly employed as a teacher of science.

I would also say training as a maths teacher then transferring to teach science would be tough- I wouldn't want to run practicals with no training! Organising practicals does also create a bit of extra workload- although the better your technicians, the lower this workload is!

These aren't meant to be negatives or put you off, but just to share a bit about the reality of science teaching in schools at the moment.

I think there are lots of positives to teaching science- it can be a really fun and inspiring subject! Often there's a lot of resource sharing, which helps reduce workload, and usually the marking load isn't as high as essay based subjects!

As a possible downside, I do think you have to be very hot on your behaviour management to safely run a secondary science classroom. Sometimes you have to be willing to have a reputation as a "strict" teacher, which I know not everyone loves!

I can understand not wanting to wait another year, but it might be possible to get some experience in the summer term, so it may be worth holding off a bit longer. I wouldn't want to jump into secondary with no real experience of what it is like!

Secondary teaching is mostly crowd control in a lot of schools. Especially y8 9 10 bottom sets.

I'm a secondary teacher and very happy with it. I can't imagine being stuck with the same class all day every day in a Primary school! I also get to teach what I love all day every day. Maths is a shortage subject and you will be snapped up for that. Another advantage for maths is that (going by my colleagues, no offence intended) the workload is relatively light. Marking 30.maths books takes a lot less time than marking 30 English books. Most maths teachers I know don't do any work over the holidays, whereas I am currently ploughing my way through 50 epic coursework assignments!
I love the variety of ages I teach. Yr7 and 8 can be a bit needy and annoying, but also full of imagination and enthusiasm. Yr9 plus are my preferred ages. You can talk more as yourself to them and get into good discussions. My school doesn't have a 6th form, I'd love it if it did. I am lucky that I teach in a school with great behaviour management systems in place. I'd hate to teach in a school where lessons were a constant battle.

Workload in maths is a lot less than in science :)

Thank you all. Very interesting replies. I will wait and see what happens over the coming months and hopefully get myself into a secondary. I think my main decision now then is primary vs secondary. Im basing secondary off my own experience in top set of a very lovely little school...so worried about the reality of the vast majority of secondary classes, they might just eat me alive! 😂

I think if your interest in teaching is all about your love of a particular subject area and passing that on and inspiring others to love it too, you want secondary.

If your interest in teaching is child development/ psychology and the role of relationships and social and emotional aspects of optimal learning, you want primary.

If your interest in teaching is all about designing ideal provision for each child, building a team of brilliantly trained adults to make a classroom work for every individual child in it, supporting whole families as well as the children and REALLY using your brain to unpick incredibly complex and challenging pupils and get them learning when nobody else could... then you want Special Needs.

I think there is more opportunity to progress in secondaries, as there are Head of Dept roles etc, and more opportunity to earn more, which might be a consideration. Workload in primaries is slightly higher according to research. I consider myself fairly intelligent (wouldn't say that aloud in real life!) in that I have all As at A Level, a first class degree and a distinction at Masters level and I have to say I don't find not 'using my brain' in primary a problem - I enjoy learning about new topics e.g. the Ancient Maya and designing a term's learning around them. The UKS2 curriculum is fairly challenging, esp as there will be some Y5/6 children performing ahead of some Y7/8 children and beyond.

Hi op, for various reasons I have done both all the way from KS1 to KS5. My primary experience is as a specialist subject teacher though not a class teacher, but here are my pros and cons:
Primary
Children are very sweet and they love you. Primary schools have less staff usually, therefore a lot of camaraderie. For class based teachers there is a LOT of daily marking as they do Maths and English daily. For specialist teachers, you feel like 'only PPA cover' and makes you feel unimportant. The younger children are, the more you are dealing with things like 'so and so touched my pencil case', 'my tooth is wobbly', 'it's my cat's birthday today' and the best primary teachers seem to show a genuine interest in this, whilst also being able to get on with the learning - I find this grating tbh!

Secondary
Teenager behaviour can be surly and difficult. You are on a constant merrygoround of pressure over GCSEs and A-levels, and you would feel the heat especially in Maths (although you'd be highly sought after). You will never hear the end of target grades and progress grades. However, as they get older you can have great conversations and relationships with teenagers and they're really not as bad as their rep! The content is much more engaging, I love getting my teeth into GCSE and A-level/BTEC work and I love the challenge of this. As a form tutor you have some pastoral responsibility and sometimes deal with friendship issues etc, but I find it much less constant than the low level primary stuff.

You can probably tell I prefer secondary teaching, but there are definitely plus points to both. If you go for Maths you'd be super employable and could probably take your pic of 'nice' secondary schools.

In some areas you can do middle years training, I’m currently doing my PGCE in ks2 and Ks3, so experience across both areas. You need to be subject specific as well -I’m science but am with maths, English and history trainees. That might work for you, I was unsure but leaning towards primary now although possibly not training when secondary schools are able to be at their best!