Anyone use Doodle Maths at their school?

[drspouse]

DS and DD have this (home subscription) and DS has made great progress, partly because he can do it independently as he's a huge help refuser (he has ADHD, we're working on "listening to instructions". )
He's in Y4 and he's working at half way through the Y3 curriculum on the app.
He's in a PRU and his refusal habits meant he did almost no learning in Y2, then moved school twice then lockdown. But he's made great progress with maths and we feel he can use it outside apps/worksheets.
School are saying he's redoing Y1 maths "and some Y2". We said we thought he was holding back on them as we've seen him do fractions at least 1/4, 1/2, 1/3 and starting on 1/10, "how many wheels on 11 cars", he's almost got his 3x table pat, and I explained column addition (no carrying) once and he got all the answers in that section right.
But they say he "hasn't got the year 1 work properly"
Is Doodle Maths really over-optimistic? We don't think he's able to game it and he's always just binning questions he can't do (rather than guessing). And it still says he's half way through year 3 with no gaps in earlier years?

I looked at the year 1 work -DD is doing it now - and it's all stuff he has to be told to go out for when she's doing her work as he just tells her the answer!

Quick bump in case anyone can answer this!

Ds is secure in y3 and just started it so I can try to keep an eye on what he's doing.
It mostly numbers are the mo though and I need to get him to do it more often.

That sounds harder than y2 though.

When they say they're redoing y1 with him what do they mean? Is it on a tracker I wonder? Or is it all on doodle maths?

I know in sen we have difficulties assessing sometimes as they can have some splinter skills. Some assessment methods have meant they don't progress as it won't let them if they haven't filled certain boxes (stupid I know.)

I don't know enough about doodle maths to understand how it can be used for tracking - is that the case?

I'd say being able to answer those questions is pretty good though. Could it be areas of time or measures?

When they say they're redoing y1 with him what do they mean? Is it on a tracker I wonder? Or is it all on doodle maths?
I think it's just what they are giving him in terms of workbooks. They use Mathletics but we found the app buggy (annoying but he gets frustrated so he won't do it as often, which kind of misses the point).
He's just worked out his 8x tables from his 4x tables 😲
You are right though, he can't tell time at the Year 3 level but it has "exceeded, mastered, developing" for every NC area and all the Y1 areas are covered and if DD is doing them he can even explain some to her (e.g. if I explain tens and units he can tell her if she's doing it right).
I'll see if I can get a screenshot.

He's just worked out his 8x tables from his 4x tables 😲

Aw well done lad!

Ds can just about do this and he's very good y3.

I feel the fact he's able to workout how to (so, using and applying) is really good. It may be they feel they need to be sure he's covered certain things before they move him on?

Which would be a big 'hashtag I don't think so' for a child with adhd!

Is all this remote learning? Is he having any face to face?

Sorry it's Exceeding, Meeting, Developing. This is "Analyse Gaps" for Y2 and Y3. As you can see he's not grasped Y2 Time and he's good at Y3 Number but all the Y1 areas seem to be covered which is why I'm confused.
(The other areas are off the bottom of the screen).

He's in full time but he's a real trooper and does Doodle Maths and Spelling every day at home. We started when his first school said he couldn't add single digit numbers and I knew he could but we couldn't get him to do homework on paper and he couldn't read well enough for their Maths app.

I'd be surprised that he couldn't do some of the addition and subtraction stuff if he's able to work out 8 times tables.

Space shape measure stuff (I haven't actually taught a lot of the maths under the latest framework!) tends to need to be contextual and practical but they usually get it quite quickly.

Still trying to work doodle maths out; does the teacher set some of the targets ?

One issue could be that he might find things that are too easy boring?

If he can do npv1 surely he can do npv2?

Ah I've just gone back to your op and seen that it's a home subscription?

Have you shown this to the school staff?

I must say I'm thinking of suggesting doodle maths to our Sen school for blended learning but also as it looks like it's a good tool. We've used similar things in the past; the issues with literacy and engagement can mask their true skills.

I have shown them the summaries (as in my screenshots) and I don't think they believe me. We set the targets not school - I set him to finish half of year 3 Maths by this week and he's on 49% so I wasn't overambitious I don't think.
They just tell me "oh he doesn't really know it" or "oh he can't apply it". That's why I thought maybe someone could tell me if it's accurate. But we see he can apply it!

Oh and we are in the middle of his EHCP review and they want to put that he's on Y1/2 maths and I suspect they will aim for "some Y4"' or more likely "finish Y3" by the end of primary. I'm 100% convinced he can do age appropriate maths and I want his EHCP to reflect this.
Last time his outcomes said he'd get to Red band reading books by the end of Y6. They now say he's on turquoise (again, I beg to differ).

If he's just moved school I wonder if they're still getting to know him?

Some of our classes are v unsettled still. There's also how it's presented sometimes; I sometimes think it takes the teacher most of the autumn term to get to grips with how the kids learn and demonstrate their understanding.

I'll keep an eye on ds and his y3 stuff, from what I've seen I thought it was quite challenging.

His school has used it a long time for lower ability children too boost their skills, and possibly to also assess where they really are. They've now got everyone on it in case of blended learning but also as part of the catch up. So they must value it a lot.

I would recommend it, and the spelling, very much. Any DCs whose reading is poorer than their maths are not held back. Spelling doesn't rely on writing and is really systematic (DD's spelling lists are bananas - e.g. "Hey" when she didn't know -ay yet. Do the easy one first people!)

English is tedious and overly technical though. We really like Night Keeper for both writing and grammar games.

It may well be that they don't know him (technically he's been there since Jan but only part time during lockdown) but he's very likely not to see the point of showing them he can do easy stuff!

If I were in your position, I'd keep him happily playing doodle maths and progressing at his own speed. I'd ask occasional qs to see if he can apply it. Learning tables off by heart will help loads. If there weren't a pandemic I'd be persuing it. You could try again to show them info after Xmas. This term will be tough and I suspect Sen and prus will be badly hit too. How do you feel about that?

One of their teachers will work out where he is at some point. They're probably going off some baselines from his last school too?

It looks like he might need some basics in measures which I'm sure you can do here and there through baking and water play. Time is tricky; I personally really struggled with analogue time till at secondary school!

Half of schools such as prus and sen settings are about the social interaction and practical skills, especially after all the time they've had off. Some of our classes are almost like pru cohorts, I've often found that children coming into us from mainstream (or even prus) need a good year of working on a range of routines and emotional regulation before real learning happens.

Writing is often something that children need a lot of a confidence boost in. They are very likely to be doing a lot of work in this area.

Although then I wonder if he's not showing them what he can do as he's bored...!

Is there a review coming up?

We're in the middle of a review, which is how I found out the DHT thought he was working on Y1 stuff. The class teacher had said it was a mix of Y2 and Y3 and then the DHT minimised the Y3 stuff "it's only just some number work".
He can happily tell us that he's had 200ml out of a 400ml bottle so there's 200 left, or how much his snack bar weighs - I think realistic estimates are hard though at this age (heck at my age too - especially weights) but he'll tell us how tall everyone is in order etc.

And yes, they are doing great stuff on working with others, saying when he needs a break etc. So I'm reluctant to criticise but this is his big strength (as well as his imagination and for want of a better word posing skills - he'd be great on stage if he didn't have social anxiety!) and it would be good to celebrate (of course we do at home).

Hmm, I wonder if the actual teacher may be able to shed more light on exactly what he's actually doing.

Is there a parent's evening coming up?

One thing; in my experience the review report is written a few weeks before the review. They may have only been just focusing on some y3 numbers work as that's usually early in the term. So work in the summer may have been lower.

Could you find an opportunity to talk to the class teacher?

He sounds like he's doing well, esp working out the 8 times table, but as a Y3/4 teacher I don't think your examples sound like he's halfway through the Y3 curriculum, sorry. For example, using column addition with carrying to solve word problems would usually be covered in the first half term. I'd expect an able Y1 to be able to follow column addition without carrying if shown, and certainly an average Y2.

The op is basing that on the doodle maths scores which are supposed to follow the U.K. nat curriculum.

Yes I'm aware of that (if that is in response to me). My point is, I don't think it sounds reflective of what a Y3 at ARE would be doing, so no I don't think the programme sounds correct. If a child were doing those things halfway through the year, I wouldn't say they'd be on track on make ARE. I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just basing that in my experience of teaching Y3 (or Y3/4) for consecutive years since the new NC came in. I know it's not just about column addition, that's just one example, but column addition without carrying is not part of the Y3 curriculum so being able to do that isn't indicative of meeting the objectives.

Ok I see your point.

It's certainly not a total curriculum but seems to be complementary.

As he's missed so much school he's going to have missed some key basics and the opportunity to practise and embed them and therefore will have some splinter skills. Plus his adhd. So coverage he's following at school may be y1, y2 which is why they said that in the review.

I'm impressed that he has the skills to work out tables though.

Where I know we've struggled as a school with this sort of this is sometimes being constrained by the curriculum, following it step by step and assessing as such, as some pupils can be extremely able in some areas and unable to progress easily in others. So it's hard to know how to "grade" them.

I'd continue with the doodle maths and also loads of practical opportunities at home with money for example. Money especially, mental calculations adding and change etc. Those are the life skills he needs maths wise and will demonstrate his true skills to staff when he covers it. If you have a parents evening coming up, mention it again for info.

The app does bring things up in a really random order it seems to me! I'm also puzzled why it hasn't done column addition first, and that is indeed what they are doing in school.
The screenshots don't show everything that's been covered though, they cut off the rest of the page.

(The odd thing was that the class teacher mentioned what they'd been doing - some Y2, column addition, times tables) during our parent meeting. Then the other teacher wrote Y1/2 in the EHCP and was adamant this was correct.
We have asked the class teacher what to cover in the Y1 work to reinforce but it was about a day before half term so a bit late for a reply.)
We're doing some telling time stuff at the moment (an obvious weakness) and will do money as it comes up, good plan.

I've looked some more and it does give each learning objective for the curriculum. When I go in as a parent it gives a score for "understanding of the learning objective." I can also set targets it seems and LOs even though I'm a parent and it's a school subscription.

Ds hasn't played it much (6 times max??) and apparently understands up to half of the y2 curriculum which may be a sort of algorithm thing? But it's not asked him much.

I wonder if the teacher can download it herself and then login as a "parent" to see it herself?