Independent v state

[teacherdilemma]

I am weighing up my options as a primary teacher with three kids and wonder if anyone can help with what it's like to teach in an independent school. I do want to know about pay and conditions, but also the pros and cons of the job itself, the hours and whether it is a good experience overall. I don't have any interest in my children attending the school themselves.

I'm in independent but (apart from teaching practice) don't have any state experience to compare it to. I went straight into independent because I'm a single mum and the job came with wraparound care, a huge discount and a heavily subsidised house!!

Job wise - I think the hours are longer that state but the paperwork hours are less. The government hoop jumping is less but increasing. The smaller class sizes are an enormous plus but you do need to prepared for the school to be your life in term time, especially if it's a boarding school like mine is. The pay is, I think, fairly comparable. Possibly slightly lower than state where I am but some schools are higher. SLT think they own you but that's probably the same as state. If it's a selective school there will less differentiation planning but I'm in a non selective with a high proportion of SEN so doesn't always apply. Grounds and facilities are amazing.

All good to know. How do you find the kids/parents' demands? Sorry to perpetuate a myth/cliche, but this is one downside that I've heard of-in that independent school parents have high expectations and expect an awful lot. I guess I'd expect that, but do the demands feel reasonable?

Yes, a lot of the parents are very demanding. But then they are paying an awful lot of money so, within reason, we do need to meet those demands. There's always a few who will expect to be prioritised over the other parents though and that's when it gets tricky.

I have worked in both sectors with young kids. If you can get a job in an independent then in my opinion this is better. Your day could be a bit longer, but you have less marking because your classes are smaller, and longer holidays. I have also found them to be more flexible eg allowing to watch your DC school play etc.

Ploughing-thank you. Pl can I ask if your children attended the independent/s you work/ed at?

When they were both key stage 1 no, they stayed at the local state primary . I really valued the extra holidays around the business of full time teaching and having 2 little kids. They were at school for a few weeks every year when I was off. I moved DD for year 3 as I also moved to a great school, and DS joins us next year. The discount is excellent and frankly I feel bad leaving them at the state primary when the private school offers them great benefits that we couldn't otherwise afford. The state primary was fine though, great teachers, but I like being able to offer them smaller classes and a broader curriculum. I am tied to my job now but I've reached the stage where I dont much feel like moving and the school is a happy place.

Feel free to PM me if you want a detailed chat

It depends on the school. I’m a ta who has worked in both. The teachers seemed far, far happier in the independent school and had a certain amount for freedom about how they taught. It was a big independent school.There was a question mark over teacher’s pensions, which you may need to consider. Different teachers had different extra curricular specialisms- sporting or arts, on top of teaching which would involve them in eg Saturday morning fixtures. It was really nice to work somewhere where there was enough money for resources! The holidays didn’t always match the state school ones.

I work in indie after working for years in state. My school is now picking up a lot of state ideas - paperwork is increasing! Class sizes are smaller, behaviour is SO much better but pressure is high. We have also come out of the teachers’ pension scheme which is something To consider. The expectations of you as a person (as opposed to you as a teacher) are higher I think.

I don’t think I would still be teaching if I was I the state sector and I was “badass” with very good behaviour management. I found keeping classes under control Manageable but very hard work and I got sick of seeing lovely kids have their education ruined by the dross in the room. It depressed me.

For me, there are more parents’ evening, more reports and other extracurricular stuff which takes quite a bit of time. I think it is swings and roundabouts to be honest.

The difference is parents. Parents have far bigger expectations and some feel they have a right to an audience with you whenever suits them. I sometimes feel like a servant. Schools will, largely, pander to this and in our case, this is because there is local competition and unhappy parents vote with their feet. I am secondary but teach in the primary also and it is definitely worse in the primary school. That said, involved parents are generally a good thing, they help support learning and you soon learn to manage the pushover ones. I keep my hand in the state sector with supply (am part time in the independent) and that has kept up my behaviour management but I doubt I will ever work full time in the state sector again.

I work solely in 2 state schools now, but a few years ago did 2 terms in a private school and I have also done some instrumental teaching in a prep school. I much much prefer state schools. No way would I have sent my own kids to a private one, even if I had been able to afford it.

I hated the whole "we're paying good money so can behave how we like" ethos. I really don't have any issues with classroom management, but these arrogant kids were awful. Some parents were really entitled and treated me like their servant, telling me how I wasn't teaching their little Lancelot or Lucretia properly. The holidays may have been slightly longer but they more than got their pound of flesh in term time. Quite a lot of the kids were stunned when I told them that my equivalent aged students in the state school could manage something easily because they thought they themselves were marvellous and that no state school could possibly teach to that level. Umm, the state school got far better A level & GCSE results, and that's where my own DDs went.

Interesting you say that, Malbec-that's confirmed that my biggest fear might be a worry. I do spend a fair amount of time worrying about whether I've let my own children down by them not going to an independent. My heart lies in the state system really, and certainly the results at their school match local independents. I just feel a pang when I know mine won't get the chance to play piano on a stunning grand, nor to perform their school plays in a purpose built theatre.

That's a side issue, though, but does make me wonder if I'd be right for the independent sector.

does make me wonder if I'd be right for the independent sector

I used to think that I wasn't cut out for indies, but really there's nothing to be 'not cut out' for. All children deserve an education, so you just do your thing with the children who are in front of you. Whether you send your own children or not is by the by - I do because I think it is a school at which they can thrive and have opportunities - but if I didn't I'm confident that their education would be good anyway. As for the job, I just teach my best like I always I have, and I don't allow arrogance or rudeness (not that I've experienced much) just like I wouldn't allow any other poor behaviour.

@teacherdilemma

I am weighing up my options as a primary teacher with three kids and wonder if anyone can help with what it's like to teach in an independent school. I do want to know about pay and conditions, but also the pros and cons of the job itself, the hours and whether it is a good experience overall. I don't have any interest in my children attending the school themselves.

Independent schools are all different. We don’t tend to get hung up about terms and conditions, just thankful for the positives.

As a primary teacher, it should be a joy - small classes where you can actually hear the children read every day. Depending on the school, there may be specialist music, drama, art, science lessons which will free you up.

You can teach the full curriculum without worrying about focusing on just maths and English.

The cons are highly involved parents, who can also be wonderful support.

I’ve worked in both and really enjoyed my time. You need to be careful about any school and work in the right ones for you. That goes in either sector.

Having said that, I much prefer the indie sector. Yes, the parents can be demanding but there is zero behaviour problems and small classes. Overall, I wouldn’t go back to state unless I had to.

Interestedly, the age profiles of classroom teachers is much younger in the state sector for a reason. It’s very demanding. The age profile of classroom teachers in the indie (and grammar) sectors is older. There are less demands.

My DC goes to another indie prep where if we are unhappy we are invited to leave! Not all private schools parent pleasers!!

Good luck

Eldest DS went to private in 1990. 2nd DS in 1992. Then the school was small but very friendly, teachers badly paid, but the children were sat on and parents contacted if there was a problem. Then the parents backed up the school, sometimes a child was expelled for behaviour problems. It was very outdoorsy boarders in dorms.

Fast forward to 2011 when youngest went. What a change, dorms were out not enough privacy, outdoorsy had become risk averse. Still smaller classes. The biggest change was the parents. They minority were unreasonably demanding, rude, aggressive. The cars changed back in the 90`s the cars were pretty ordinary, now we had chelsea tractors, amazing sports cars there was much more £££ evident.

What was interesting was the problem children were sometimes council funded having given up on the state system parents who pushed could get them into private boarding schools for behavioural problems. Now there were always these problems in the past, when you met the parents you could see why. I really believe boarding school saved some of these children.

Your days will be longer if you are expected to do evening duties, but as others said marking less books is a bonus.

As for parents, there are pushy, unpleasant, unreasonable ones across the board. You do need a head of department who will fight your corner. These days at school there is a feed up process you cannot demand to see the head in the first instance.

I started in an indy recently after 15 years in state. Even though it’s early days it’s probably one of the best decisions I’ve made. Yes the days are long (8-4:30,5, a few Saturdays) but the ability to just teach is priceless. As others have said, check TPS and go for a visit to see the vibe of the school. I thought I wasn’t posh enough for it but, at this early stage, I don’t think it’s an issue.

Worth mentioning that more and more private schools are having to leave the Teachers Pension Scheme as the huge rise in the contributions paid by schools has become unaffordable. Not being in the TPS may not be an issue for some, but I think it will for a lot.

Good to know, suk. Does that mean pensions generally not good for independent schools?

Also, don't make the mistake some make of assuming that private schools automatically means good, supportive management.

Here's just one story that was in the news fairly recently:

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/teacher-relives-emotional-nightmare-13k-18894588

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7321857/Leading-13-650-year-private-school-forced-pay-teacher-60-000-forcing-quit.html

I remember reading an article that said over 1 in 10 private schools that were in the TPS have now left. With the financial pressures that many private schools are facing due to Covid, I can only imagine that figure will increase a lot.

I have taught in both and there are positives and negatives in both. Much of it is down to the headteacher and senior management team.

Over the years some parents in the Independent sector have become very demanding and can treat you as if they own you and expect you to be in contact instantly. However they are paying a huge amount of money so they expect results. I always write honest reports and in one school, the teachers were only allowed to write very positive comments- anything remotely negative had to be changed, even if the child's behaviour was really disruptive or they were struggling. I have also found that if there is a problem the headteacher generally backs the parent over the teacher and unions are not really recognised/listened to. If something goes wrong, you're on your own. (I have seen that many times in various Prep schools). Also if the school is a small one and not well managed, it can easily shut down (have seen that a few times as well).

After many years in the private system, I moved back to the state system and actually prefer it. I feel more valued and respected as a teacher, but that may be down to working in a supportive, caring school.