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Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

Returning from abroad - lots of questions

14 replies

wishihadrubyslippers · 31/05/2020 12:00

Hello,
I'm English with a 2.1 honours degree in French and Spanish which I obtained over 20 years ago from an English university.
Since then I have been living and teaching English in France. I have QTS here (the CAPES) and have over 15 years experience teaching teenagers (11-18 year olds) as well as some experience teaching in universities and adult education (in company training, mostly but also FE).
I'm thinking about moving back to England within the next few years and have been looking into what I would need to do. As far as I can see there should be no problem getting my QTS recognised, just lots of paperwork.
I'm wondering what I'd be allowed to teach. I thought the obvious choice would be French and Spanish as those are the subjects my degree is in, but in France I'm qualified to teach English, even though I don't have a degree in it.
Would I be able to teach English in England? I know ESL is not the same as standard English as it's taught in schools in Britain, but I obviously know how to teach the nuts and bolts of the language and do teach literature to the 16-18 year olds.
Would I be considered for jobs teaching French and Spanish, bearing in mind I never have done? I would imagine my ESL teaching skills are transferable though.
Do you think I would struggle to find work, bearing in mind I will be nearly 50 when (if) I come back?
I've been a form tutor and a mentor for trainee teachers here and although we don't have heads of department as such I have taken on quite a lot of coordination as one of the most senior members of the team (and the most willing).
Are MFL teachers in much demand? (Brexit...). There don't seem to be that many job offers in the area I'm thinking of moving back to.
Would doing supply be the best thing to aim for at first?
Would it be worth trying to get on a training scheme or just get my QTS recognised and jump right in?
Has anyone here done this, or heard of others doing this successfully?
I really would welcome any feedback, insight and advice.

OP posts:
MaryBerrysBomberJacket · 31/05/2020 12:55

I've known an English Lit graduate who did a Spanish PGCE as she was fluent in Spanish and French as second and third languages, but I can't imagine it would work in reverse; everywhere I've worked the English teachers had English degrees (one of the only departments to have teachers of their actual degree!) As for teaching MFL, demand is quite low in my area. I know a few schools that have either rotating years of languages offers at GCSE (so 2019 exams are Spanish, following year French etc) as they are lucky to have 1 class taking it, or only offer 1 language at all. At my current school we have 4 MFL teachers compared to 12 English for example (although 2 are a job share).

I'd look at getting your qualifications recognised and then getting into supply personally; in the most recent years people who I know who have returned from aboard have been shocked at some of the behaviour and attitude of students, as well as the conditions for staff.

wishihadrubyslippers · 31/05/2020 19:05

Thanks, that's very helpful even though it's not exactly what I wanted to hear.
So, not much chance of being able to teach English (I'm OK with that) and not much call for MFL teachers. This last point fits with what I picked up from looking at job ads, unfortunately.
I work in a school where the pupils are generally well behaved but the work load has increased a lot over the years, to the point where I feel it has become excessive. We do get more holidays here but the days can be very long with classes until 5pm in 6th form, sometimes later.

OP posts:
cheesecurdsandgravy · 31/05/2020 19:32

MFL is a shortage subject nationally - although clearly there are places where this isn’t the case as above! French and Spanish is the most popular language combination too. In direct contrast to @MaryBerrysBomberJacket above, I think you’d find a job soon enough. Although yes, I agree, very little chance of English.

cheesecurdsandgravy · 31/05/2020 19:34

Where abouts in England would you be looking? Within 30 miles of my address I’ve seen maybe... 15 MFL jobs advertised this year. What you might struggle with is the drop in pay. Despite your experience, the chances are you’d start low on the pay grade (despite what the adverts say!).

Are you in France currently?

wishihadrubyslippers · 31/05/2020 20:46

Thank you @ cheesecurdsandgravy, that's more encouraging to hear. I would be looking to relocate to Hampshire/Dorset, ideally, as that is where I still have family. Being a nice part of the country, perhaps vacancies don't come up that often in that area.
With regard to pay, with 15 years' experience I'm taking home roughly 2000 euros after tax and the equivalent of NI. (I'm still in France, yes) I worked part-time for a few years after a career break to look after my dc when they were small so am lower down the pay scale than if I'd been full-time for the duration. So the drop in pay would not be that dramatic although the cost of living being higher in England is something to be factored in.
So, you don't think my age would go against me?

OP posts:
cheesecurdsandgravy · 31/05/2020 21:16

Hampshire/Dorset is as far away as you can get from me in the North so I can’t advise much in that respect 😆
Age wise, I think the fact that you have experience teaching, albeit in a different country/subject will help. Although, you might find you get stuck on supply waiting for a school to see your potential, even if you start at M1, your take home wouldn’t be much different - but the cost of living in Dorset/Hampshire might be higher than you are used to, I don’t know.

I would recommend that you get some experience in English schools though. I’m afraid that my experience of teachers from France (I’m MFL) is that, no matter what experience they have in France, the UK system is totally baffling to them - even down to the way classrooms are arranged, lessons are planned and the pedagogy is really quite different (not sure if that’s a good or bad thing mind Grin). Of the dozen or so I’ve worked with, only two have lasted more than three years and have headed back to France... Obviously, you went through the English system yourself, but as they say, the past is a different country.

wishihadrubyslippers · 31/05/2020 21:50

Yes, I agree that I need to see how things are done in England these days. That's something I need to look into over the next year.

Are schools generally willing to accept prospective teachers who would like to do work shadowing? Would it be best to approach the head teacher or the head of MFL? What would be the most convenient time of year for this? We get two weeks off in October/November and in February so that would work well for me. I usually have to mark the baccalauréat in the first two weeks of July and I'm not convinced that the third week of July would be the most representative Wink.

Interesting to read about the French teachers being baffled by the English system and giving up. It was a real culture shock for me when I first started teaching here. I know that I and other native speaker teachers here have a different approach to most of our French colleagues, also in terms of our rapport with and expectations of pupils, even after all this time.

Thank you for taking the time to write such detailed replies, by the way. I really appreciate it.

OP posts:
cheesecurdsandgravy · 31/05/2020 22:23

Absolutely, schools know that it’s a prerequisite of students starting their training and I’m sure they would be open to you for the same reasons. I’d only contact heads of MFL directly if I knew them - I think (and it’s been a while...) that I contacted the local schools directly, explained what I wanted to whoever answered, and they put me through to the right person or took contact details. But, maybe someone else can advise. You have a slightly more unique situation than a trainee teacher.

Generally schools in England have the half term holiday the last week of October and the last week of Feb, which you might need to factor in.

I’m very pleased to hear that school culture shock is a two way street, haha.

Littlelot · 31/05/2020 22:28

Just to add I graduated with French and Spanish taught in the UK for a few years and then went abroad - although only about 8 yrs - I now teach English to A Level and have taught both Lang and Lit. I know one other MFL graduate who has switched to English - the skills are definitely transferable if you can sell it in an application. Both MFL and English tend to be subjects (depending on where you are in the country) where there are not too many people competing for posts. I’m teaching in an excellent school and love it!

It may be worth phoning and chatting to heads as part of application process and see what get say. Also worth, in my opinion, just sending speculative letters to schools in the area outlining your experiences and what you would like to do - you never know you might get a response. I think a lot of jobs are not being advertised at the moment because of lockdown and issues with interviewing etc. But my school are looking to take on a few extra staff for September as they envisaged lots of sickness, enforced absences etc.

Good luck.

wishihadrubyslippers · 01/06/2020 08:22

Thank you again @cheesecurdsandgravy for the advice and encouragement.

@Littlelot thank you too. That's really encouraging to see that you've managed to do the seemingly impossible! Did you move into teaching English in a school where you were already teaching MFL or did you go straight into English?

When the time comes, I think I will do as you suggest and send out letters to the schools I'm interested in, offering MFL (I also did German GCSE a looong ago so would be willing to brush that up and could potentially teach key stage 3) but also English.

I think supply is definitely the only way to go as I wouldn't hire anyone like me for a permanent or long-term termporary contract without any proof of competence!

Thanks again, and 'bon courage' for the rest of this very strange year. Looks like we'll all be going back to school from now on over here, as of tomorrow. Confused

OP posts:
StaffAssociationRepresentative · 01/06/2020 12:25

Maybe try independent schools as well. In the first instance, schools will take you as an MFL teacher.

Swot up on the syllabus for the different key stages.

A school may try you at KS3 English alongside MFL but I doubt that they would put a 'newbie' straight into KS4/KS5 without a refresher.

rillette · 01/06/2020 19:39

You should also set a saved search on TES for EAL Teacher/Co-ordinator jobs. You'd be very good at that, and I've noticed some down your way every so often (I was interested in pursuing EAL but ended up sticking to MFL)

wishihadrubyslippers · 01/06/2020 20:49

Thank you @StaffAssociationRepresentative and @rillette for your suggestions. I hadn't thought of independent schools or EAL so those are two other possibilities (or rather two in one, from what I can make out). I would prefer to teach state secondary/sixth form but beggars can't be choosers. Grin

OP posts:
SansaSnark · 02/06/2020 11:31

Not quite the area you want, but I know a few MFL teachers in the Bristol/North Somerset sort of area who found jobs very easily. In Bristol some schools have quite a bit of demand for EAL teachers as well.

Bristol isn't a cheap area to live, though.

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