Unions say not to engage with any plans to return

[Twinklelittlestar1]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/12/plans-to-reopen-schools-on-1-june-in-jeopardy-as-education-unions-tell-staff-not-to-engage-with-prepartions-1?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

‘Safe to be ill’ that is exactly it, for me, Dilbertian.
I don’t currently feel I will get adequate or indeed any treatment if I catch Covid 19. That’s not the case for any of the other contagious diseases I have been exposed to at school. I don’t want my photo flashed up on the local news, I don’t want awww, brave teachers putting themselves in harm’s way, I don’t want to potentially spread it to others in my household.
They are not treating people in a timely or effective way. Why the hell should I put up with that?
I got more PPE for cases of impetigo than they are proposing for Covid 19 and I’d be highly unlikely to die of impetigo.

@DobbyTheHouseElk
I think that seems a sensible starting point. The 50 page leaflet from ten government suggests that attendance will not be mandatory. I think, I would keep my children at home as I feel that fewer children attending would improve safety.

26 teachers have died, totalling 65 school staff

Can people stop posting this statistic, it is absolutely useless in terms of showing how teachers are proportionally affected by Covid.

People keep asking what teachers want to feel safe.

Individual opion is going to be very variable, but the NEU has repeatedly posted the 5 steps they want to see happen before schools open. They have been backed by the headteachers union and British Medical Association.

Rather than keep nagging teachers, I suggest checking the NEU 5 steps.

JoeExoticsEyebrowRing

Can people stop posting this statistic,

Its a perfectly valid statistic when people are still post the bullshit that children can't catch or spread this virus.

You can't and won't get everything on your own terms.

Statistically speaking I'm not at risk. I'm happy to work and am. I'm also happy for my kids to attend sometime soon.

@JoeExoticsEyebrowRing people have died. Hiding numbers won’t change what’s happening. The proportion of those that have died is irrelevant to the families and friends of those people.

Unless adequate protection and planning is put in place then more people will when they are exposed, there is also the risk to families of students and teachers, they aren’t on the data above.

For frontline staff who have no choice but to send their children to school while the work, this must be hard to read.

I honestly don’t know the answer. It seems sensible to start now to slowly encourage children back to school. It’s about balancing risk.

September won’t be safer.

DobbyTheHouseElk
For frontline staff who have no choice but to send their children to school while the work, this must be hard to read.

Why? at the moment provision for them this isn't stopping and hasn't been highlighted as an issue by anyone.

I honestly don’t know the answer. It seems sensible to start now to slowly encourage children back to school.

This is the answer, but it isn't what is happening.
From the information that has been given.
3 yrs are expected back in 2.5 weeks.
2 weeks later all the pupils are expected back.
That is what the government want.

Any reform of timetables/ classroom rearranging will be effectively pointless and a waste of time.

It’s about balancing risk.

And that is what is being asked for.

Not a teacher, but trusting that if heads say that that schools aren't ready on 1 June, they'll have reason.

However I am a data analyst, and in case it helps anxiety of those having to go in already, the 65 deaths of teaching staff up to April 20 - while tragic and likely unnecessary, as with most UK covid deaths - are not statistically higher rates than other white collar professions such as corporate managers, many of whom were working from home. This SchoolsWeek article summarises well, and specifically states that the rate was 6.7 per 100,000 for men and 3.3 for women.

This is roughly the same rate as those classed as business and public service associate professionals (6.8 and 2.8) and corporate managers and directors (6.4 and 2.6), but much lower than those in elementary trades and related occupations (27.8 and 12.5) and those in textiles, printing and other skilled trades (24.6 and 7.0).

Again, this does not mean that schools should be rushed back - but also think will hopefully help put fears into perspective for those already in.

www.google.com/amp/s/schoolsweek.co.uk/ons-figures-reveal-65-covid-related-deaths-in-education/amp/

To the posters saying it won't be safer in September.
Surely if Covid cases keep falling in the next 12 weeks then there will be fewer cases in the community by then. It also means schools will have had a longer period to prepare for the return of large numbers of children by putting more hand washing facilities in place, portacabins, extra staff etc.

@JoeExoticsEyebrowRing people have died. Hiding numbers won’t change what’s happening. The proportion of those that have died is irrelevant to the families and friends of those people.

Oh ffs, have I said anything to the contrary?

What I am saying is that statistic is meaningless because alone it doesn't show that teachers are proportionally more affected by Covid than other professions. Given the number of people who work in schools, the law of averages tells us that a number of school staff will die of Covid. It would be more strange if school staff somehow avoided it tbh wouldn't it?

From the Schoolsweek article that this was published in, the death rate amongst school staff of of 6.7 per 100,000 for men and 3.3 for women

... is roughly the same rate as those classed as business and public service associate professionals (6.8 and 2.8) and corporate managers and directors (6.4 and 2.6), but much lower than those in elementary trades and related occupations (27.8 and 12.5) and those in textiles, printing and other skilled trades (24.6 and 7.0).

I am not saying anything else other than that that statistic of simply how many teachers have died of Covid is meaningless without further context.

Oh I x posted!

What is the point of having a staffroom when non staff keep coming in?

#solidarity

@FrippEnos

I have friends who are frontline nurses and are finding the debate hard that’s all. They don’t get to think about sending children to school or them going to work. They have to.

But sending more kids/ people out will increase those frontline workers risk even more!

DobbyTheHouseElk

I have friends who are frontline nurses and are finding the debate hard that’s all.

So do I but they are accepting of teachers position on this

They don’t get to think about sending children to school or them going to work. They have to.

So because they don't have a say teachers shouldn't have a say in making the school environment as safe as possible for bot children and staff?

My best friend is ward sister at a major hospital and she rang me furious about it today. She doesn't want schools open. Her kids are in as keyworker children at the moment and she says that is risk enough. It's not a race to the bottom. A lot of healthcare staff don't want this - that's why they wrote to the government last week to specifically ask for it not to happen. It will make their jobs much harder.

It is not just English unions that are concerned about this.

www.france24.com/en/20200512-french-teachers-anxious-as-schools-gradually-reopen-after-covid-19-lockdown The French seem to have the same concerns as us.

@FrippEnos

You misunderstand me, they are feeling upset by the reaction of parents not wanting to send their children back when they had to send their children to school.

France's take on things is interesting. Ppe, Hand sanitiser, proper social distancing and groups of less that 1:10 it seems. Also, just inviting the neediest children back; this is a much much more sensible approach.

This has been doing the rounds in Ireland today - www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0513/1138100-hiqa-coronavirus-review/

The public health team commissioned the public health authority to do a study of existing studies into children which suggests they are negligible in spreading it based on the data that exists, though it does raise question marks about the quality of the data.

Ireland have already said that no schools will go back before September and cancelled all national exams, I would imagine it will be some time before there is any evidence as to whether this study influences their policy on schools and childcare but it is encouraging in terms of at least primary teachers safety.

However it seems to suggest that there may be a tapering effect and under fourteens are much less likely to spread the virus than over fourteens, so presumably if taking this evidence on board secondary schools would need to consider different precautions to primaries.

I'm not a teacher but I do work in schools quite frequently, and my team in work would go into schools quite a bit. We're obviously assuming there will be quite a time lag before anyone external will be invited in, but I do find this encouraging.