Shielding and Teaching

[ElizabethMainwaring]

Hello All. Are you in the shielding group? Or your partner or children?
My husband is shielding and I'm a teacher. I'm very concerned about what is going to happen.
Apologies, this is yet another thread about the unknown that no-one actually knows the answer to...any supposition and guess work welcome! Thank you.

[ElizabethMainwaring]

Oh, thebookeatinggirl
That sounds so difficult.
I really couldn't cope with that. My husband is in his 70s and he would feel that life wasn't worth living. Also we are both disabled and are each others carers. He helps me with some things and me him with others. I'm mentally not strong enough to live like that.

[ElizabethMainwaring]

Or perhaps we could do something with buckets, maybe...

[phlebasconsidered]

I'm thinking of a tent in the garden with camping sink and using the back room which has access to the downstairs loo.

Although i'm asthmatic from the emails from my trust i think i will be expected in. But my mum is 82 and has vascular dementia and lives with us plus DH is overweight, on medication for hypertension and has heart issues. I would feel terrible if i brought it back to them. We've got a big enough garden for me to put up a 6 man tent so i reckon i could do it. Then the kids can see me in the garden. I'm happy to cook outside.

[Edujaded]

Phlebasconsidered - I can't work out whether you are being sarcastic or are seriously considering living in a tent away from your family?

[phlebasconsidered]

No, really considering it! If my mum gets it from me she will be seriously ill. She just doesn't understand social distancing and sits and cuddles up to the kids. There's not enough room in our house to give me a separate room.
A lot will depend on how we are going back. If sufficiently spaced and I think the viral load could be low then my nurse friend says stripping off and showering immediately should be enough but if it's business as usual then that won't be enough, I feel. Seems daft to be considering it, doesnt it!

[Edujaded]

Oh goodness phlebasconsidered, that's very difficult circumstances.

This link appeared in a different thread analysing the data and statistics of coronavirus, I think from another teacher! It's gives a really good explanation of how infection spreads, from an American associate professor of biology. It helped me appreciate just what a challenge it will be to make schools safe. Worth a read for all of us I think.

www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

[Impiz]

This is the first thread I’ve seen where people are discussing the issue of the ‘merely’ vulnerable. I agree, it’s very scary. Schools are no place for social distancing. Classrooms are small and meeting rooms and staff rooms are even smaller!

[Piggywaspushed]

You can't discuss it outside of staffroom without people saying' well, supermarket workers/bus drivers/nurses/ I do it...'

[Russell19]

@Impiz wondering if it's because people aren't that worried or something else?

You can't discuss it outside of staffroom without people saying' well, supermarket workers/bus drivers/nurses/ I do it...'

Also to this.... have vulnerable doctors/nurses been expected to carry on working? What had their policy been for someone listed as vulnerable but not in receipt of a shielding letter?

[Piggywaspushed]

My understanding is that nurses and doctors were largely redeployed to safer work roles. However, this has, of course, all been at the mercy of their managers as everything is 'where this is possible'... they have, of course, been unhappy about this. We then surround the ones who died with a rhetoric of blitz spirit, heroism mythology ( ignoring the fact that several highlighted concerns about safety) and, bingo, front line staff are just expected to 'crack on.' I fear vulnerable teachers will only be as safe as the treatment they get from their heads.

[RoseannelovesDan]

I’m a HCP in NHS. We have lots of staff with shielding partners. They change clothes and shower when they get in and tend to sleep separately. They clean the bathrooms after use. The shielding partner does the cooking.

[Russell19]

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings#shielded-and-clinically-vulnerable-adults

[Russell19]

That above has been the most useful advice I have seen yet.

[phlebasconsidered]

That advice has been an absolute boon to my slt. I am.l now in receipt of an email telling me I may choose to work. Cheers.

[Edujaded]

Here's the extract from the government's advice issued today for educational settings:

Clinically extremely vulnerable individuals are advised not to work outside the home. We are strongly advising people, including education staff, who are clinically extremely vulnerable (those with serious underlying health conditions which put them at very high risk of severe illness from coronavirus and have been advised by their clinician or through a letter) to rigorously follow shielding measures in order to keep themselves safe. Staff in this position are advised not to attend work. Read COVID-19: guidance on shielding and protecting people defined on medical grounds as extremely vulnerable for more advice.

Clinically vulnerable individuals who are at higher risk of severe illness (for example, people with some pre-existing conditions as set out in the Staying at home and away from others (social distancing) guidance have been advised to take extra care in observing social distancing and should work from home where possible. Education and childcare settings should endeavour to support this, for example by asking staff to support remote education, carry out lesson planning or other roles which can be done from home. If clinically vulnerable (but not clinically extremely vulnerable) individuals cannot work from home, they should be offered the safest available on-site roles, staying 2 metres away from others wherever possible, although the individual may choose to take on a role that does not allow for this distance if they prefer to do so. If they have to spend time within 2 metres of other people, settings must carefully assess and discuss with them whether this involves an acceptable level of risk.

Living with a shielded or clinically vulnerable person
If a child, young person or a member of staff lives with someone who is clinically vulnerable (but not clinically extremely vulnerable), including those who are pregnant, they can attend their education or childcare setting.

If a child, young person or staff member lives in a household with someone who is extremely clinically vulnerable, as set out in the COVID-19: guidance on shielding and protecting people defined on medical grounds as extremely vulnerable guidance, it is advised they only attend an education or childcare setting if stringent social distancing can be adhered to and, in the case of children, they are able to understand and follow those instructions. This may not be possible for very young children and older children without the capacity to adhere to the instructions on social distancing. If stringent social distancing cannot be adhered to, we do not expect those individuals to attend. They should be supported to learn or work at home.

[DrMadelineMaxwell]

Yes. The word guideline is a double edged sword.

I'm Wales, so this isn't quite our problem just yet (maybe in one more week - who knows) but the HR in our county has already told our HTs (apparently) that if you aren't in receipt of the shielding letter and haven't been signed off by your gp, then you won't get paid if you choose not to go to work.

I'm one of several asthmatics, but all the rest were happy not to make a fuss at the start. I initially asked to be able to work from home when we shut to pupils anyway. But have since gone on the rota as it's expected that we all are. I don't mind so much when it's one day every few weeks and only a handful of kids. But half classes, full time will raise the risk level higher.

Unions, inc HT's unions are saying one thing following the guidelines. HR are saying another (unless that's our HT saying it's HR's directive - you never know....I'm sure she views sickness as slacking it feels like sometimes). I tried asking HR what to do about it and was told in a very non committal reply, that there's not many in at the moment and it was up to me. But that was before the HT said it was going to be unpaid if we chose not to.

Unsure of whether it's worth making a fuss and I need to wait until closer to our opening to make up my mind.

[SleepymummyZzz]

I would say this guidance would now trump your HR department and you would have every right to ensure they follow it. (I was an HR Manager for many years prior to leaving to teach 5 years ago)

[Russell19]

@DrMadelineMaxwell I would think the guidance is clear there as posted above. You should be working from home.

[DrMadelineMaxwell]

Yes, you would think that, wouldn't you. But our HT was phoning all of the staff who hadn't been on the Rota to sign them back in to work as HR were saying that when we reopen ... No 12 week letter....no sick note... No pay. I have asked her to clarify with hr and to ask why they are ignoring their own government guidelines.

[SleepymummyZzz]

Good for you, stick to your guns. Section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 gives people the right not to engage in work if they have a reasonable fear of risk. I would say this absolutely constitutes ‘a reasonable fear’.

[Russell19]

Do you have a union rep at your school or are you involved in a union?

[Piggywaspushed]

madeline send the DfE guidance to your head.

[Piggywaspushed]

Doesn't ahead trump HR? HR are advisers?

[DrMadelineMaxwell]

We're Wales. So not governed by them and their advice yet.

But I did send her the paragraph from the Welsh gov advice for schools and hubs that say that vulnerable staff should not be expected to go into hubs or schools.
And their own NAHT Cymru advice that says to Headteachers that they would expect that they would not have vulnerable staff in under the guidelines.

She's replied to say she will be having a health and safety meeting with the local authority next week and she will ask.

[DrMadelineMaxwell]

Pretty sure it's in her interest to follow HR if it means she thinks it means she can ask all the vulnerable staff to choose to be in and therefore not impact the number of staff she will have available to staff the school (if and) when we open before the summer.