Fed up off OPEN THE SCHOOLS posts !!

[Lulu1919]

I've been in school since we closed including the holidays with KW children
But that's very different to opening the whole school and staffing it and keeping socially distant etc etc
I just don't think it's something that should be rushed into
Me and another member of staff with six children using two rooms is doable and I feel fine doing this.with lots of hand gel and hand washing and changing my clothes etc as soon as I get home ...I'm not sure I'll feel so comfortable / happy going back to my real job in three weeks time ...which seems to be when a lot of people think we should....
Or is this just me overthinking?

@Stellamboscha

Most of the population have been exposed to the virus now, many have had symptoms, a few have been serious and recovered and a minuscule minority who were seriously ill with other conditions already have died slightly sooner than they would have anyway

Proving how utterly clueless you are, yet again.

Yet you claim to be a teacher?

In addition, before criticising someone else's post, you might want to check your own

So everyone knows that the virus has not died out during social distancing and that as soon as we relax lockdown and allow children back to school rates of infection will rise.

It is unlikely that the majority of the population has had it - but without testing we cannot know. And even if we have there is no evidence to suggest that that confers any immunity - so many of us could get it again.

If we do allow children back to school we have to accept certain risks:

• teachers and school staff will, like NHS and care staff, be at a heightened risk of catching it
• any teachers or care staff with symptoms or underlying health issues will not be able to work
• children with (known) underlying health conditions will not be able to attend
• children who live with siblings, parents or grandparents with underlying health conditions will not be able to attend
• transport, walking to and arriving at school will need to be heavily policed to ensure social distancing
• break times will have to be scrapped or cascaded through the day for small groups at a time
• the country may need to mobilise volunteers to strengthen staff numbers
• only parts of schools may be able to return since the buildings and room sizes are insufficient to allow whole classes to return with social distancing in place
• very likely if only parts of the school can return then that should focus on those that qualify for free school meals
• or schools should be reorganised so that the few children who are allowed back go to the nearest school - state or private - to minimise travel distance.

And the sum total of all this. Education will be only partial and very disrupted. If it is offered to some children first then clearly it should be to the most disadvantaged, those who qualify for school meals and those without gardens and outside space at home. Or to those whose parents have jobs that contribute to valuable infrastructure needs - like utilities, technology etc jobs that cannot be done from home.

But we must design these measures so that they deliver social equity - and focus on disadvantage. Not to middle class parents who just want their children out of their hair or because they have very rigid notions of how and where children can learn, develop and be creative.

Biggest hint yet that schools atent going back for a while...they are giving 4g routers and laptops to disadvantaged students!

Who are "they" Magis? We're a PRU, so most of our students are disadvantaged. I haven't heard of this and would be very interested. Weirdly some of our students are far more engaged currently than they ever were in school.

And but the way it is not 'fed up off' something - seriously hope the OP is not a teacher.

Oh, the irony

children who live with siblings, parents or grandparents with underlying health conditions will not be able to attend

Oh, I think they will... given their parents go to work in many cases! I will be told to return to work regardless of my children's or DH''s health conditions.

@Makeitgoaway two quick links for you.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52341596

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/coronavirus-home-school-online-classes-free-laptop-education-gavin-williamson-a9472436.html

Thanks Magis, it's a nice idea. Unfortunately, our experience of proving or lending IT to the most disadvantaged is that it gets sold

Or, they have no idea how to use the equipment.

Or the barrier is not IT but wish, motivation or encouragement to use it for online learning - certainly so far, in terms of primary, access to learning activities has been much more strongly related to parental attitude towards education / capability to encourage children [reduced through e.g. addiction, illness] than anything else. While such attitudes are not wholly aligned with relative advantage / disadvantage, some of our most disadvantaged pupils are also those with families most disengaged from education and most sceptical that education is 'of use'.

The more I think about it the more problems I see. Even just getting to school is going to be a problem where I live. Most kids bus in from farms and outlying villages on crowded buses twice a day and wait in gangs at village bus stops. Once in school every single classroom is stuffed - no class is currently under 32 kids in classrooms designed in the 1900's for far less pupils. I was 3 to a desk in my class. The dining hall is so tiny we shift for our lunches as it is and it's still crammed.

The unions need to be absolutely strong on this. I'm asthmatic, dh has a heart condition, ds is asthmatic and my mother lives with us with vascular dementia. I will not and cannot teach in those conditions. Having just thankfully had my 6 year old nephew released from ICU with this, I cannot think that many parents would be happy with this either.

And yet I'm so worried about my class and the vulnerable children there. The school has some in and delivers meals but it's like parents evening - the ones you need to see don't turn up. We are calling them and checking in but some will return to school in feral states.

I wondered if we would or could open up in shifts for part days for a few at a time. Half a day 1:6 ratio would be reasonably productive. I'd want PPe though although I think we'll be pissing in the wind there.

Longterm for the next few years at least we will be playing catch-up academically which has implications for prp and assessment too.

phlebas , that sounds trying. Hope your nephew is OK now. My DH has a heart condition too, so I offer you unmumsnetty empathy hugs.

Mine won’t be returning to school until September.
DH has a blood cancer so I’m not prepared to risk it.

I for one will not be placing my child (asthmatic) or myself (I’m one of those shielding for 12 weeks) at risk by returning until there is adequate PPE for both children and adults and the risk of transmission and likelihood of recovery is looking far, far better. I’m not a member of a union (used to be an HR manager in a previous life and have too many memories of steamy discussions 🤣 to warrant it) but the unions need to be absolutely resolute on this, we did not join the army, we did not know our lives would be placed at risk when we were recruited (our terms and conditions make no reference to this) therefore we cannot work in an unsafe environment. I won’t back down on this, as much as I love teaching and certainly won’t leave the profession unless I’m pushed, I will if need be, I value life above all else!

@piggywaspushed Or, they have no idea how to use the equipment.

I have the greatest respect for you Piggy and you often talk a lot of sense but as an educator and as a parent of children who are ostensibly deprived (fsm) I find that I am not appreciating that sweeping generalisation.

But here's a bunch of 💐 🌹 🌷 for you anyway

It's probably reasonable to assume that a much greater percentage of the population has been exposed to the disease than has had it, but I agree that without testing, it is a finger in the air guess.

It is looking like children, and especially the under 10's, are not the super-spreaders that they were thought to be and so any plans for a return need to be about how to keep the adults socially distant from each other. Difficult, I would imagine in most tiny primary school buildings.

What does seem clear is that whatever the approach is, a heck of a lot of planning will be required and a let's-rush-back-in-three weeks plan is nuts.

It's a generalisation about children rather than FSM children betty. Their ability to use laptops is awful. Phones, fine. I taught for years a subject with a presentation component which Had to be recorded. They could not even open a PowerPoint. My year 10s are emailing me daily with upside down work and saying they can't access resources. Bless them.

It wasn't meant to be a swipe (excuse pun!) at FSM children

Thanks for the !

Thanks for the clarification PIggy I tried to disagree nicely

Time and time again in schools I have heard people say things like 'FSM children don't achieve/can't achieve/have parents who don't give a shit' etc etc and I'm probably a tad sensitive to it. My blood boiled when somebody said 'Oh Betty, your DC has done so well to get to [top Russell Group university] with her background', I had to leave the staff room.

Love the pun

Have some more

Mine won’t be returning to school until September

Genuine question... What's so great about September? I'm pretty sure the virus will still be here then?

I have posted this on other threads but will it gives us TIME.

Another thing is its not active September its mid July.

Time to develop antigen testing further.

Time to develop contact test further.

Time to develop antibody tests

Time to research TB vaccinator , Vit D , BAME , males being higher risk.

Time to get the R nought lower ( ok its looking below one already in community)

Time to develop drugs that aid healing ( not necessary cure) maybe protect lung damage

Time to research what is happening in other countries

Time to research asymptomatic cases and research covid 19 in general

Time to buy and produce some flaming
PPE!

Time to develop washing and hand gel facilities in schools. ( this should start now)

Time to assess the lay of the land to let parents make risk assessments as the curve lowers. A bit sombre but would you prefer your child to go back when theres 800 deaths a day or 20?

Time to look at the lasting effects. Are the lungs scares permanently? Any other lasting damage.

Oh god Riga yes to handwashing facilities! Our school has tiny toilets and by the time we shut we were washing with soap I had bought myself because the school had run out and to be safe with just a few at the sinks at a time it actually took nearly all bloody lesson! Plus we have one staff toilet with one loo and one sink for all of us!

I have just read the report on sky news stating that there isn't a date necessarily to open schools but it is all down to 5 key factors: confidence that the nhs can manage levels, decrease in daily death rate, decrease in new cases, supply of ppe and tests are in hand and no risk of second outbreak.

I have heard 11th May batted around quite a bit and clearly the govt aren't confirming this but it does seem to me that as numbers decrease daily, and the nhs do seem to be managing it as best they can, I think we could be looking at schools opening again mid/end May. I'm a teacher and the thought isn't a good one as I have serious concerns but it does seem that things are in hand and the next few weeks will see a decrease rather than increase.

Mine won’t be returning to school until September

Must say, I often say September but by October my asthma starts to get dodgy and the viruses start to ramp up so I keep feeling a bit about wtf is going to happen in the autum term.