Are school budgets going to be even more fucked after this?

[CurlyhairedAssassin]

I know it’s hard to see into the future at the moment and that most people are just trying to get through the days alive and sane. But I’m concerned about cuts to support staff posts when all this is over. I’m in what many would consider to be a non-essential role (compared to teaching staff) if school budgets had to be cut even further than they were before this crisis. I’m guessing I would be in the firing line. We would manage, financially, DH and me, as we are lucky to be mortgage-free after an inheritance but I do need to have a job for pension and sanity reasons (and not sure whether I would find one easily at my age (late 40s).

So I was just wondering what people who work in school finance think might happen? Government coffers will be empty after this.

I think there will be a raft of austerity measures and that schools will be fucked over, not least by the pupils who have had to leave private school and go back to state due to financial problems and school closures.
I'd love to be more positive but I've been in education too long.

I have very naively been thinking that when this is all over the gov might fund schools adequately in light of teacher's efforts.

Giving up holidays to look after the children of key workers without grumbling ; adapting to send work home electronically despite whiny parents who still find something to complain about; going into schools without any PPE to look after key worker's children and trying to give them some sense of normality and comfort whilst their parents are working hard for us.

I truly hope they do recognise the effort of teachers and school staff. Sadly it's not likely to happen though

Teachers may have shot themselves in the foot by doing online lessons. There were suggestions to tackle the teacher shortage this way. The head of the NCETM (maths teaching advisory group) had been saying that one maths teacher could teach a whole MAT’s worth of lessons via Skype.

@noblegiraffe

Teachers didn't chose to do online lessons did they. They have to.

One teacher could teach 1000 children online but it doesn't mean those students will do well. You can't reach the individual students needs.

Lots of schools aren’t doing online lessons of the zoom type. Most of them, in fact.

One teacher could teach 1000 online and now you only need one maths teacher. Could argue that it’s better than them being taught maths by a non-specialist or series of supply teachers as currently happens.

There are no online lessons with zoom being done here, it seems to be working well.

noblegiraffe

People only have to look at the return of work from online lessons to see that its not feasible in its current form.

IMO the biggest worry is about the childcare during holidays, I can see the government changing the job so that this is part if it with no increase in salary to compensate for it.

Ah yes if it’s online lessons with the kids at home, that’s not going to work. But if the money saved from paying a maths teacher could be spent on a class set of laptops and a supervisor to make sure they do the work?

Childcare during the holidays won’t happen. There’d be a massive exodus from teaching, the holidays are what’s keeping a lot of people in the job.

I’m leaving teaching if I have to work in the holidays - the childcare incentive for my own children Is the main draw of the job.

I do think there will be two-fold problems; from the cutting of budgets again as we plunge into a decade long recession to pay for this, and from a mass influx of pupils into state schools from private schools that have gone bankrupt.

@noblegiraffe

But one of the things that teachers complain about most is the behaviour of the pupils in the classroom, often making it impossible to teach the class. What kind of person do you think would be suitable to supervise a class of disengaged 15 year olds on a (much?) lower salary than a teacher’s? Where would you find someone willing to do that job for that pay and who has the necessary skills?

Disruption would STILL be an issue, objects would STILL get thrown at pupils just wanting to work. Pupils would STILL swear at both the “supervisor” and classmates, in person, and the teacher, over the connection. Pupils would STILL storm out the classroom.

How do you suggest teachers could give immediate feedback on something that each pupil is working on which isn’t an online piece of work but say, a piece of art work or poster?

How do you expect a teacher teaching a large number at once to know every pupil’s individual ability, to be able to assess properly, especially when other things come into play which could affect their work output eg family circumstances? What about parents’ evenings? Would that be done over a screen too?

This wouldn’t work well as an across the board wonderful new teaching tool. It might be ok now and again in exceptional circumstances but once you lose the human relationship aspect of teaching then you may as well have teaching by robot.

Everything’s going to be more fucked after this. As all this money is going to have to come from somewhere. Guessing taxes and budget cuts.

No doubt the Tories with their reluctance up to now to raise taxes will put some kind of “heroic sacrifice for our country after the crisis” spin on any tax hike they implement. I’m sure they will. It will make me laugh seeing them being forced to take a socialist view of things. Just as long as they tax the right people and not take a “we’re all in this together” stance on every tax bracket.

Curly

Cover supervisors already cover classes of unruly 15 year olds for a pittance.

I’m not saying it’s a great idea. I’m saying that its been mooted, and now that the technology has been seen ‘in action’ it may well look more attractive to a cash-strapped Government who love the idea that EdTech is the solution to all their problems. Remember the IWB fad?

Remember the IWB fad?

Ah, Prometheus. Happy days, recalibrating the bastard every lesson. Oh, and SLT insisting it had to be used in every lesson, relevant or not.

I just hope the ‘oh, so you will offer childcare over the holidays?!’ that we are currently providing won’t be used against us in future...

I just hope the ‘oh, so you will offer childcare over the holidays?!’ that we are currently providing won’t be used against us in future...

Hate to be the Cassandra here but yes, it will.

I’m not a teacher, but it strikes me very clearly that the entire country will have to dig very deep to pay for Coronavirus - aside from anything else, Coronavirus could mutate annually and recur, so we really need to fund NHS. I sympathise with the position teachers are in, but a vast number of people are suffering a great deal of financial hardship so I think it’s everyone’s duty to try and make the best of things. And as for those teachers saying they will leave the profession, fair enough, hope you enjoy life on UC as I doubt there will be that many other jobs ...
And personally I wouldn’t want to employ someone whose attitude was that they didn’t want to do their utmost to put the country back on its feet. Go and red the threads about families whose income has just disappeared, who are being given 40% pay cuts but told they still have to do the same job wfh.

I know it’s not fair, of course it isn’t, but it would be really great if everyone could dig deep and help.

And personally I wouldn’t want to employ someone whose attitude was that they didn’t want to do their utmost to put the country back on its feet. Go and red the threads about families whose income has just disappeared, who are being given 40% pay cuts but told they still have to do the same job wfh

This is is the "eat up your dinner, they're starving in China/Ethiopa/whatever" and it cuts no ice. This thread is about the future of education/funding when COVID-1 is over, in case you hadn't noticed.

And it's in the in the Staffroom sub-forum, but hey ho, yet another non-teacher piles in.

Jesus. Crap typing.

@echt completely agree.

Only a non teacher would barge in on the sub forum and allude to teachers being work shy society haters.

And personally I wouldn’t want to employ someone whose attitude was that they didn’t want to do their utmost to put the country back on its feet. Go and red the threads about families whose income has just disappeared, who are being given 40% pay cuts but told they still have to do the same job wfh.

This is the type of BS that will be flung at teachers if they don't do exactly what they are told.

But that is exactly what the rhetoric will be! And it will be impossible to argue ..... we’ll be back by June (as we should be) but as I’ve stated in numerous threads, we’ll be forced to stay open in August. The govt have a bill in parliament that allows them to force schools to open.... why would you do that if you weren’t planning to use it? The argument will be that the country needs to get back its feet economically and children need to make up lost learning time ...... the way to do that is to remain open in July and August with maybe a two week break somewhere in there. It would have overwhelming public support ....... most parents hate summer holidays anyway. And once you’ve done it once .......

Noname99

I agree. And all done for the same money and a change to the contract.
It will be interesting to see how they plan to retain teachers at that point.

fripp
But what would teachers resign and go to?? Even the most optimistic think the economy will be shrinking for at least 2 years - a world wide recession is a definite; avoiding a depression will be a good outcome. Many many companies will fold and unemployment will rise. And there is a possibility that this virus may cause at least one if not two or three more lockdowns before we get on top of it either through heard immunity / vaccination or both.
Would you really leave a relatively well paid secure, guaranteed full pay underwritten by the taxpayer job with 6 months full pay and 6 months half pay sick leave? IMO you’d be nuts! I expect retention rates to go up after this and people re-entering the profession (supply teaching not looking so great anymore!)

Noname99

Yup. All cards that I am sure that they will play to change the conditions of teaching.