Why is class participation considered so important these days?

[dimsum123]

As a parent, I would like to know why class participation is considered so important by many teachers?

Why is it necessary to put your hand up in class to ask or answer a question?

Why is sitting there quietly, whilst actively listening, hearing and processing the information being disseminated not enough?

I ask because my son has been at school for ten years if you count reception. He is 13 and currently in year 9, and in each and every report and at every parents' evening we get told he is very quiet and should contribute more/participate more in class.

Because of this he is perceived as lacking in confidence. He does not lack confidence in general, but I would agree he does lack confidence in speaking out in class, perhaps because he's scared of getting an answer wrong or of asking a stupid question and being laughed at.

However he gets good grades in all his written tests and homework etc, always getting 7s and 8s and with a bit more effort and less time on the playstation, could comfortably achieve 9s across the board.

Given that in his GCSEs he will only be marked on his written work, apart from French which is an exception, why is class participation so important?

If it is because the teacher wants to know if he has understood the lesson, that can and is evaluated through homework and written tests.

Even more confusing is that some teachers see it as an issue whilst others do not. Some are content that he is clearly learning and understanding what is being taught, as can be seen from his written work, and are not pushing for him to speak more during lessons.

I have noticed that it seems to be the older, perhaps more experienced teachers who are not concerned about the lack of visible participation and it's the younger ones who seem most keen for him to engage in this particular way.

In years gone by the opposite was required and children were meant to sit quietly and listen and learn. If my son had been around during those times he would have got top marks for effort in every lesson. It seems in our world today being an extrovert is considered the ideal.

I feel it's trying to push a square peg into a round hole and at best it's futile and at worst it's damaging if as a result my son my feels his personality is not good enough as it is.

Can anyone shed any light?

This aggravates me beyond measure.

There are extroverts. They like putting their hand up.

There are introverts. They don't.

Being an introvert DOES NOT MEAN there is something wrong with you that needs to be fixed. You can be an introvert without being 'shy' or 'needing to come out of their shell' or 'needing more confidence'.

FFS teachers, LEAVE THE INTROVERTS THE FUCK ALONE

Because of this he is perceived as lacking in confidence. He does not lack confidence in general, but I would agree he does lack confidence in speaking out in class, perhaps because he's scared of getting an answer wrong or of asking a stupid question and being laughed at.

I’d say, as a former introverted child and now a teacher, one benefit of increased class participation is to make children resilient, a hugely important life skill, particularly for shy or anxious children. The classroom should be a safe place to develop these skills. Not engaging with learning for fear of being wrong shows anxiety getting in the way of what the child should be doing.

Asking children questions on the spot is one way of checking who is quietly working/concentrating and who is daydreaming, it is an assessment strategy.

Active learning is considered more positive than the more passive quiet listening model you describe, which is considered a bit dry and not usually enjoyed or suitable for the range of needs we get in an average classroom.

*I really wanted to just ask "so here's what we will do at home to help > list a few ideas

I had this at every parents' evening with my two children. We used to joke about it before we went to see how many teachers would say 'doesn't contribute enough' - my DS almost had a full house 1 year ! I wasn't worried as I knew I had been exactly the same.

It had actually no bearing on their grades - they both were awarded top grades in all their GCSEs (11 A*s) and also top grade A levels . When I last explained this about 3 years ago on MN someone said they may struggle at job interviews. Not the case - my DD landed the first job she applied for post university - which included an assessment centre as the last stage with group tasks, presentations etc. DS is still at university.

I agree with previous posters - it's more to do with the teacher wanting feedback from the class than any issues with the child themselves.

Part of my university grade was based on contribution in seminars also lots of public speaking (presentations, conferences) where one man was marked down because he read off the paper too much due to stage fright.

You say he's not lacking confidence but is scared to say the wrong answer - that's lacking confidence and resilience.

I think some people are missing the point somewhat. It certainly isn't about teachers disliking introverted children and wanting everyone to be extroverted (not ime anyway). It is (in addition to the actual learning points I raised earlier) about helping students develop a range of skills - including ones they aren't naturally good at.

In order to get really top marks for effort (certainly at my school) you have to push yourself out of your comfort zone. So an extroverted child isn't going to get an A for effort if they don't let other people speak in paired / group work any more than an introverted child will get an A for effort if they always let someone else do the talking. How much the parents care about that particular thing is entirely up to them.

That sounds a moe positive way of asking, I'll definitely do that.

Perfect I agree and I know DD needs nudging in the right direction so I want to do as much as I can to help this. Hopefully we'll get to a place where she's happy asking questions in front of a group when she needs to and is happy to throw her ideas into a discussion. And remains a great listener and respectful of what others think too! It's definitely a balance but I will start putting teachers on the spot in future to establish how the are helping this. To just tell me she doesn't ask/contribute isn't helpful.

Teaching is a bit like giving a performance. Some audiences are overly quiet and disengaged and the performance falls flat. There is a world of difference between students actively listening and prepared to answer a question when asked and ones who are switched off. Having said that, the tips on the previous page all work well. I have said to very reticent students that a chance to present their ideas in a pair to a table of six is about the safest chance they'll ever get to practice public speaking.

@LolaSmiles, DS does participate in small group discussions so it's not the case that he only wants to work on his own. He just doesn't want to ask or answer questions in front of the whole class.

It's very heartening to see that you have thought about strategies that enable your more introverted students to participate in class in a way that works for them instead of essentially saying they need to change who they are. I wish every teacher would do this. Perhaps it's something lacking in teacher training.

We're keen to support DC at home to balance quietness with appropriate contribution/feeling more confident in discussion/whatever issue, what are you doing in class so we can try similar at home? Thank you for this suggestion, I am going to use it when I speak to his form tutor next week.

Most of his teachers seem to have realised that they need to pick him out to answer questions rather than waiting for him to volunteer.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz, yes I get frustrated with the teachers too, especially after years of hearing the same criticism over and over again and yet his grades are always very good. I did ask one of his teachers for suggestions as to how to encourage him to ask more questions but he was flummoxed and didn't have an answer!

I'm not in the classroom with DS so there is not much I can do apart from chat with him at home. The teacher is there in the classroom; surely he/she can come up with a way to encourage DS at the time, there really is no point in mentioning it in every report whilst seemingly making little attempt to adapt the lesson to include him and the other quieter boys.

DS too is an amazing listener and a deep thinker means he takes a bit longer to formulate an answer to a question by which time another child has already put his hand up and answered it. His teachers do say that when he does actually answer a question it is always very well thought through and goes beyond the obvious.

@SpruceTree, also very much agree with you. Being an introvert is absolutely an advantage in many jobs and indeed in life.

@NearlyGranny, you say that the privileged students at your daughter's uni knew how to dominate a conversation even when they had nothing to say. That is not going to get you very far in a highly intellectual work environment even if in government it seems to be a requisite.

@dustibooks, I couldn't have put it better myself!

@Cyberworrier, I'm not quite sure what you mean?

Active learning is considered more positive than the more passive quiet listening model you describe, which is considered a bit dry and not usually enjoyed or suitable for the range of needs we get in an average classroom.

Why is learning by quietly listening 'dry'? What do you mean by 'dry'?!

And why is this type of learning not usually enjoyed? By the student or teacher?

And why is it not suitable for the range of needs in an average classroom? This makes no sense to me at all. It's not up to DS to cater for the 'range of needs in an average classroom'; it's up to the teacher to cater for the range of needs which includes the quieter students.

I agree that asking questions on the spot seperates the daydreamers from the quiet workers/listeners and there's nothing wrong with that and his teachers do use that strategy with him.

And I agree we should work with on him on overcoming his fear of getting things wrong if that is what is holding him back from participating.

@ItsReallyOnlyMe, this is my own story. I didn't speak much in class, did very well in all my exams, had a 10+ year successful career as a lawyer which obviously involved going to interviews before giving it up to become SAHM. I am just amazed that the majority of teachers seem completely unaware of this 'career path'. And I have never been lacking in confidence either whilst at school or after leaving school.

@PerfectParrot, yes to get top marks for effort DS would have to push himself to speak out more. But in reality it's getting top marks in his GCSE grades that will count towards university entrance and jobs; whether he spoke out in class will not even come into it.

In a one to one situation such as an interview he will be fine. He had offers from all the top schools when doing the 11+, all of which involved an interview with the headmaster/senior staff so he is fine in that situation.

@Phineyj, I absolutely agree. If DS is switched off then I am certainly going to agree with the teacher that he needs to be tuned in to the lesson. But if he is actively listening and answers questions when asked which he does, then I don't see a problem, but this doesn't seem to be enough for some of his teachers.

I am going to try and get to the bottom of why DS doesn't want to speak out more, but afaic as long as he is listening and learning and his grades are good I don't think there's any more I could ask of him.

This has been really interesting, especially getting the input of teachers and there have been some great suggestions which I am definitely going to take up. Thanks everyone!

Contributing to discussions is an essential life skill. A fear of getting something wrong is precisely what holds people back from achieving their full potential.

dimsum123
I think you'd be on a losing streak if you want him to not answer questions because that's bread and butter teaching. It's fair to not expect him to always put his hand up to volunteer answers or ask questions as long as he responds well when asked.

"Active learning is considered more positive than the more passive quiet listening model you describe, which is considered a bit dry and not usually enjoyed or suitable for the range of needs we get in an average classroom.*
The "listening=passive" / "quietly getting on = dry" idea is a throwback to the stupid Ofsted agendas, VAK, group work model of teaching that was more about entertainment than learning.

I've increasingly come to the view that people talking about active learning seem to mean talking lots, teacher puts on a show, group work etc. It also seems to go hand in hand with "there's a buzz in the air (aka a noisy classroom)" and lessons being graded outstanding because the students were busy.

There's a time and a place for louder lessons and it's just personal opinion but a calm classroom with lots of opportunities for quiet paired discussion, independent work, and whole class discussion is more productive for introverted and extroverted students.

@LolaSmiles, he always answers questions when asked and in fact his teachers say in these instances he always gives a very thoughtful and considered response.

I do object to teachers wanting him to show appreciation for their 'performance' by asking lots of questions as that's not his job. Nor is it his job to make a teacher feel rewarded or to enjoy teaching because they view students answering and asking questions as a sign of success in their teaching.

I'm not saying every teacher sees things this way. But it is telling that it always seems to be the much older and more experienced teachers who are content to leave him be as long as his homework and classwork and tests show he's learning in the lessons. Maybe they are more confident in their abilities as teachers and don't need that active reinforcement from students to feel they're doing a good job.

@LolaSmiles, you sound like a very thoughtful teacher who actively considers the individual needs of all her students and if all DS's teachers were like you, I don't think there would have been any need for me to even have started this thread. I wish every teacher had your insight.

It will come when he's ready. My eldest was like that all through school but amazed me last year when we were at a choir concert and the people behind were talking as she turned round and told them that we were trying to listen and would they please be quiet - she was offended by how rude they were being when the choir was just 5 people and putting on a special performance.

You're probably not wrong when it comes to experience OP and if not teaching experience, enough life experiences before teaching to have a healthy scepticism towards fads.

I remember when I trained there were some really strong messages like:

• all lessons must have VAK learning styles
• tasks must be short and snappy
• teacher shouldn't direct learning as it's best when students discover things
• buzz was a big factor in how good a teacher you were
• the more card sorts / group work / out your seats activities the better
• teacher explaining their subject should be kept to a minimum because listening is passive
• engagement can be seen by students talking, group work and lots of hands up

Thankfully, the university tutors on my course did a good job of telling us to be sceptical of these agendas. If we'd been solely school based it would have been easy to believe that was gospel.

I think people suggesting questions Nd hands up are validation for the teacher have perhaps misread it. It's more likely that they've been taught that is required and some schools do promote that still. I'm aware of friends who've been told their lessons weren't good because 4 students didn't put their hand up all lesson. You'd think senior leadership would know better, but sadly that's not the case.

@LolaSmiles, that is so interesting. It's obvious that some of DS's teachers have clearly taken on board some of messages you have listed there.

I hadn't considered that teachers may have been taught that hands up is a sign of engagement. The teaching of teachers definitely needs improvement in that case.

I am actually going to explain to DS that this is how teachers are trained and for them success is measured in part by things such as hands up. My main concern in all of this is his self confidence and self esteem and feeling he needs to change because he is not good enough just as he is despite good grades and qualities such as being kind and thoughtful and gentle.

You sound like an amazing teacher, your school and students are very very lucky to have you.

@hennyspennys, that's good to hear. Good for your DD.

It's very upsetting as a parent to be told your child needs to change because his innate personality is not good enough. I'm sure DS will be able to achieve his full potential despite not wanting to put his hand up in class. It's actually a ridiculous thing to use as an indicator of future success whether in a career or life in general, when there are so many facets to every individual and we are all a work in progress, continually learning and being shaped by our experiences, long after we've left formal education.

that's good to hear. Good for your DD.

I was fairly pleased. All through their schooling I was told that the three of them (only one still there) needs to contribute more in class particularly DS2 who never volunteers anything and combines it with a 'not listening' face - many a teacher has been caught out by accusing him of not listening and asking what they just said only to find that DS2 has an exceptional memory and can repeat the last ten minutes verbatim

Everyone benefits when a wide range of voices are heard in the classroom. The students learn as much from each other as they do from me. In classes where a few students dominate it suggests to me that I’m not doing enough to make other students feel comfortable and confident to contribute.

I think it’s telling that you view this feedback as criticism. Does your DS?

PS to add to @LolaSmiles’s posts - the fashion for the last few years has been for ‘hands down’ feedback. Some schools don’t use hands up for feedback at all, only for questions.

I work in a school where we use no hands up questioning all the time. I specifically target questions at students of my choosing to check understanding and information retention. Otherwise I'd hear from the same 4-5 in each class all the time, and the others would let them dominate.

Asking for help or clarification is viewed as a proactive way of engaging with what you're learning; asking yourself- do I really get this? am I on the right track? and then talking about it with the teacher or classmate. If he feels as though he does understand the content in every single lesson, then asking questions to deepen knowledge. Questions like "so what would happen if...?" "is that similar to when we learned about..?". Etc.

Yanbu. I had this when I was at school and was forever being told I needed to contribute more. There was no chance I was going to be putting my hand up in front of the whole class whether I knew the answer or not. I'd answer if I was asked directly but didn't want to volunteer myself. It's incredibly frustrating. I got straight As, an excellent degree and have had no trouble finding myself a job.
DS just started school and I suspect he'll be getting the same comments I did as he's a mini me.

Also, it's not viewing this feedback as criticism - it's delivered as criticism and as something that you should fix.

Just realised it's not AIBU - been reading there all day