Advice for DSD with Teaching career-Please Help!

[skatingalley]

DSD2 was chatting to DH, her mum and I about her future options and mentioned that she has had a change of heart and would like to go into teaching after University.

She is currently in Year 1 and is 17. DSD is doing Geography, Spanish and Art for her A Levels and her teachers have told us that if she continues to work at the level she is working at, she is looking at A*s in Geog and Art at the end of Year 13 and a borderline B/A in Spanish. That is obviously only if she continues to work hard!

She was a bit unsure though and had these worries/questions and we all agreed to help her look into them etc and as I haven’t got any really close teacher friends, I thought I would ask here.

These are the main worries/queries etc:

-Would Art, Geog or Spanish be the better subject to teach
-and if she wanted to be a Spanish teacher would she have to have a Spanish degree or could she start as an Art teacher/Geog and then teach Spanish on the side
-What is the pay like and is it easy to move up the pay scale
-Is it easy to become a HoY? She says that it will all probably change but she thinks that she would like that sort of promotion with a pastoral side to it, rather then HoD
-Would a traditional PGCE be best? Or something like TeachFirst? DSD did a bit of research and thought that she would quite like TeachFirst

Thanks all

Meant Year 12, not Year 1
And Secondary teaching, not Primary.

Also apologises if my terminology is wrong, I’ve simply rewritten (shortened it down!) what DSD had down.

Does she actually have any experience of being a teacher? Done any work experience? Shadowed a teacher Ina different school? This is her first priority. Teaching is tough!
Teach First target challenging schools, so it would be a very challenging route to take, but knowing teachers who have gone this route it's very supportive.
If she were to succeed and be a strong teacher, HOY is possible within maybe 5 years, but again, many teachers in here will tell you how hard work it is!
I suggest she tries to set up a placement in a local school before she commits.

One word advice: don't.

Have a look through the staffroom topic on here, burnt out, miserable teachers desperate to get out.

@Soontobe60
She is only in Y12. Her teachers say that work experience etc are best at University once she has her degree running and knows what subject she would like to teach.

@YourOpinionIsNoted
I will do, but her HoY was so encouraging when she mentioned it and said it’s tough but she thinks that DSD is the type to cope.

Anyone else

If she wants to be a secondary teacher she needs to prioritise her undergrad degree and then ideally some work in that field for at least two or three years before going into teaching via PGCE etc.

Teaching is even harder when you have no other work environment to compare it to. There's also an important aspect of signposting students on to further careers/making the links between the subject and its wider importance which is much easier done if you've worked outside education before coming into it.

I would caution someone who has not yet worked full time in any job from coming into teaching. I love teaching, but it's so incredibly hard at times. I am so glad I had all the experiences I did prior to teaching.

I would advise she picks a degree based on what interests her the most as 3 years is a long time to study something you don't love and even longer to teach it.

Whilst at uni set up some work experience at a local to uni school (or even better 2 or 3) on a regular basis and ask to work with a variety of year and ability groups

Year 2 of her degree start looking at routes into teaching -there is no need to look and make decisions now -things may well change over the next 3 years

Teaching is hard, some schools are better than others and some people go into it without a full understanding of the demands -it's definitely not for everyone and some schools do treat their teachers appallingly

But, like everything in life -the voices complaining are often louder than the ones that are happy or content

I wouldn't discourage her but she doesn't need to make firm decisions now

Secondary teacher of 20 years here, also involved in teacher training (school based). It’s hard work but If you can find a school which suits you and a subject you love, then it’s great fun and increasingly there are alternative routes for progression. I would personally suggest to avoid Spanish, as the schools I know are really struggling with MFL and departments seem to have high turnover. Good advice further up the thread to get experience visiting a school first - most training schools will be happy to arrange this for her, once she is into her degree.

Cross posted with @worldweary45 - agree completely, no rush to decide now. Just get the degree choice as which she enjoys.

@iheartspiders
If she were to get the grades to do Spanish, DSD would probably follow DH into the corporate world and she doesn’t think she would like that very much and would get too hung up on the money to be able to leave and drop down to a more modest salary. She doesn’t want to get into that spiral.

She really loves geography but isn’t sure what she could do/would like to do with a degree in it, other than teaching and I don’t think she would like to do an Art degree if she could do one of the other two options. Or at least that is the impression I am getting from her.

@worldweary45
Thank you, I will let her know what you advised but just a question, could DSD not do a few days before the holidays (when unis have broken up and schools not yet) in her old Secondary and Sixth form? I think she would really like that and her Art teacher recommended it? Not sure though, perhaps it would be logistically easier to do it by her university? Or is there another reason why it would have to be there?

Agree with PP that choosing the degree should come first, and ideally shpuld be the subject s

Sorry! Trouble with viewing on my phone. She should choose the subject she loves most for her degree.

Most schools do work experience in Year 12. She could perhaps ask to do it at a school?

I'm a geography teacher. I love my job. Yes, it's hard, yes some days I am utterly worn out, yes the kids can be relentlessly hard work....but it's the most fantastic job if you are the right person for it.

You need to be caring, patient, see the long game, thick skinned and have a really good sense of humour. But most of all you need a good school. I moved schools a year ago and it's been the best move, my colleagues are amazing.

@skatingalley

I'd suggest uni town because then once she has her uni schedule she can commit to a regular volunteer position -this would give her more realistic experience than a couple of weeks at the end of term.

A lot of new teachers have never been in school during the autumn term for example when new classes, rules and routines are being established.

I'd definitely recommend experience away from the school where she was a pupil so she gets the most out of her experience -she will have some preconceived ideas if she goes to back to her own school and it's very difficult to get past these (particularly if she liked the school/teacher)

@worldweary45
Ah yes. You’re right, she does adore her teachers and school in general. Will be good for her to have experiences of other schools too, definitely.

@GuyFawkesDay That is lovely, will pass it on!

I know that her degree should be chosen first but if you had to say, are there more openings (overall, I know it will likely vary area to area) for art, geog or MFL teachers and if she does Spanish, would she need to have another language? She has Latin to GCSE but hasn’t done French since she was in Year 8 and doesn’t remember much apart from the very basics/can’t seem to form tenses well.

Geography graduates have a very high employment rate (ex geog teacher of 20 years). She should do a degree then either a pgce or school route.

I have Latin GCSE. Useful for etymology but little else other than sounding clever 😆

Lots of options with a geography degree if she decided to do something else.

For teaching, geography is becoming a shortage subject so she could be eligible for bursaries etc (depending on job market in next few years of course). The same is true for MFL although French might be slightly more popular.

I agree with pp, choose the subject she enjoys the most and get work experience in schools wherever possible. She might be able to pick up volunteer tutoring or doing arts /sports clubs with disadvantaged children which will be good experience (both for her to get a sense of the challenges/interest and it will look good on her application).

TF are increasingly placing people in rural/coastal areas not just big cities so that's something for her to consider. They do taster programs and she could look at being a campus rep for them if she wants to know more about that route.

TF/SD/PGCE all have pros and cons. There are videos on YouTube with interviews with people who did them all which may help (although they are all aimed at encouraging people to go into teaching so expect them to promote the positives!) When she gets work experience she can ask around as she's likely to encounter people who've done each. Teaching apprenticeships are coming in too.

I would encourage her to get a range of experience in a range of areas, not just at her old school but it wouldn't necessarily be a stumbling block if it's in her uni town or home town, it's just better for her to do more stuff.

@BadnessInTheFolds
Does that mean that she won’t be able to stay in London if she does Teach First? The Universities which she would be aiming for and applying to aren’t in London but I think that DSD would like to move back and rent with friends or something of the kind in London afterwards, like her brother is doing right now.

If there would be no way to know that they would place her in a London school before she actually started in the school, would she be better off doing a PGCE? Not sure she would like the idea of another year in university in a different place when nearly everyone else has graduated, but I suppose she would have to just crack on with it really

I’ll definitely direct her to the Youtube videos though.

To do a PGCE with Spanish, she will need a degree with a significant portion of Spanish. Increasingly both PGCE providers and schools want more than one language (my local MAT is now teaching French only, however) although there are government funded KSE courses to help with that. Some schools expect their MFL staff to teach either language to GCSE, others are more sensible and only have you do your strongest language. Spanish is very popular - particularly with parents - but without French, jobs may be difficult to come by. The bursaries are enormous for MFL but I agree with the poster above who says departments have high turn overs. I have taught supply for the last few years and always have plenty of long term work to choose from which gives you an indicator of how things are. There are plenty of MFL teacher groups on Facebook to begin to get an idea of the issues faced.

*SKE courses