SENCO advice needed re EHCP

[drspouse]

Ok so bear with me...
DS has ADHD and is very behind in a lot of aspects of his learning. He's in Y3 and we looked at 8 schools for him and there's no special school that is suitable so he moved in Sept to a village school (we are edge of a small city, which doesn't help the issue of school choice as it's a small place anyway). PAN 15 so he's in a mixed year 3/4 class.
We are appealing his EHCP and we need to work out what should go in it as school don't really seem to be able to work out how to deal with him, he's hardly ever in the class and the original provision was things like "role model for good behaviours" and the outcomes for year 6 are all things he can already do.

So questions:
What would you recommend for a child who gets easily wound up, though school doesn't help him (his desk is in a corridor, they hold him still when a group goes past because it winds him up but he hates being held so it winds him up more.
What would you suggest for specialist help for phonics (he's passed his Y1 screening in Y1 but his old school then didn't teach him much more so he's about at that point now).
What's your favourite way to teach a child of this age to type?
His writing is still quite poor but we have a good scheme that he loves and school is on board with using it and he's making good progress in Maths (he's at Y2 level which is right for a child that did no maths to speak of in his actual Y2!)
He's seen the OT who's recommended lots of sensory stuff.
He hardly ever goes in the classroom but we think they give up on trying.
He's very anxious especially around noises/busyness.
We just need to work out what we/school should ask for.
He has 1:1 but it's been a revolving door (one lasted a morning) and they are now advertising for a full time one.
They keep excluding him (and they don't record properly what happens to cause his outbursts so we don't really know but we think it's busyness, noise, cumulative effect of these but mainly being held by staff) and we have a solicitor who is writing to say this is discriminatory. We have tried to point them to alternative behaviour schemes. He's not learning from the exclusions and they will never prevent this behaviour.
So if you were SENCO what would you be asking for? As the solicitor has said "we will ask for what school needs" but school aren't too sure!

I'm not a SENCO, I'm a parent of 2 children with SEND, but I would be looking for specialist provision. I did read the bit where you said there is no suitable special school, but have you considered all options ie. independent specialist or out of area?

I think you need an ed psych report which will make recommendations. Desk in a corridor sounds unhelpful, especially if he is affected by noise and crowds.

The psych report we have didn't see this school but the OT has and she's just finalising her report. It is mainly helpful but doesn't address everything.
The school are asking another OT to observe as well so I'll make a point of asking her what she recommends re setup.

Sorry that's another EP not another OT.

@LadyCop we have considered everything within an hour's drive that takes 7 year olds.

You might be better posting on the SEN boards than here. Unfortunately, parents are usually much better informed about EHCPs etc than teachers.

But - as both teacher and SEN parent - are you seriously saying that he is taught outside of the classroom, in a corridor, most of the time? And that staff hold him down as others walk past? Does the EP report suggest that? If not, how does the school defend this as the right thing to do?

It sounds awful. You need some serious support! Does he take medication for the ADHD? Is he still under consultant care?

Breaking down your post a bit more...

moved in Sept to a village school
We did similar. Tbh, it took a year for him to settle. Big fish/small pond. It took a long time for the rest of the class to accept this ‘unusual’ new boy. Now that they do, he’s thriving. If you trust school (though not sure if you should tbh), stick with it. If not, start looking for alternatives, but go prepped with what they can help with.

What would you recommend for a child who gets easily wound up
Training for staff. 1-2-1 TA. Sensory breaks. Visual timetable. Same seat every day (near back of room so he can see everything - no need to turn around/ reduces anxiety)

his desk is in a corridor, they hold him still when a group goes past because it winds him up but he hates being held so it winds him up more.
Ditch this. Right now.

He's seen the OT who's recommended lots of sensory stuff.
Loads of it then. LOADS. Lots of sensory breaks.

He hardly ever goes in the classroom but we think they give up on trying.
Go with him when noone’s there. Get him to explain it to you/trusted adult. What does he know/understand in there? What worries him? Where would he be happy working?

He's very anxious especially around noises/busyness.
Visual timetable. Early/late lunch. Quiet space for breaks.

They keep excluding him (and they don't record properly what happens to cause his outbursts so we don't really know but we think it's busyness, noise, cumulative effect of these but mainly being held by staff)
Record. Record. Record. You make a record if they don’t. Ask him and put as much detail in as possible.

So if you were SENCO what would you be asking for?
Support from local specialist teacher. Support from CAMHS.

It sounds awful tbh. I really hope you get it sorted. I’m surprised there’s no specialist provider nearby. I live rurally and there are several places I know of. Want to pm me (or share here) the first part of your post code and I’ll see what I can turn up?

I’d recommend home educating him. He would get so much more out of it.

Might be impractical for you to do, but seriously consider it.

We are not home educating. He would never have any friends ever again and we'd have to give up my income and I'm the higher earner.

I really don't want to write all the detail as it is tedious and I've done it 65 million times already but
All SEMH provision is for older and more violent, or much less verbal, children.
All the home ed groups are for 4 year olds or teenagers.

This school are the only ones that want him. So we don't have much choice.
We do think they could be pushing the other children to integrate him more too. I don't think this group has had a new child since Reception. And the parents don't speak to us either so I dread to think what they are telling their children.

@MsJaneAusten
I also post regularly and extensively on the SEN boards.

But thanks for all your points.
Would you recommend a specific or branded training? They say they want to do Team Teach but can't find any courses open/anywhere near.

I would like to post the layout of school to see if anyone has any ideas on that but I fear it will be outing. But if anyone would be willing to look at it via pm? Can an EHCP specify remodelling (e.g. move coat hooks for other children)?

And can we say "you don't have permission to hold him"? If it's making him worse? I suspect they would just try to permanently exclude him if we said that.

Any additional thoughts on phonics, typing etc? As we'd like to get this EHCP right now for a while!

Sorry if that was a bit snippy. Struggling with illness myself and DS just had a very poor dancing lesson attempt.

I think @MsJaneAusten wrote a lot of sense.

I don't know if the school have permission to restrain without consent from the parent or not; I don't know if the rules have been changed since I was last working in a school (about to begin again so I will find out soon).

The situation doesn't sound right, the way they choose to handle his behaviour and needs, it doesn't sound right.

If he’s HE he can still do scouts and football and rugby every other social activity.

Does he have any friends at school now?

If you’re the higher earner could your DH HE? Or someone else? It doesn’t have to be either of you.

I know you don’t want to HE and I do respect that. But I can’t see for the life of me what he gets out of school. What benefits does it bring to him?

He doesn't make friends at any other activities. I think you'd have to be really on the ball socially to make proper friends you want to see outside that activity in one hour, some weeks.
He barely copes with them anyway and has coped much less well with being off school this past week due to exclusion, as his regular routine has been disrupted. He currently goes to, and mainly copes with, Beavers (one got a week, he doesn't really talk to the other children) and swimming (30 mins, you can't make friends at swimming). He sometimes goes to football but he's in a group with younger children, he knows they are younger and again, you aren't supposed to be talking to the other children!

DH can't HE. I'd go mad, only seeing DS all day every day. I don't think anyone else would do it!
He has only ever made friends at school so it's just cruel to take him away from that opportunity.
I really don't get why home ed is supposed to be the big amazing solution to children being isolated at school. Isolate them more? What for?

I didn’t read it as snippy. I read it as knackered!

Yep that's me! Full time knackered!

My Dd yr2 has 1 to 1 support.

Each year a local charitable autisim organization comes out and assesses her needs. They have said she is in the high range of "challenging behaviour" We also had a high turnover of 1 to 1s (6 in 1 year) until we found one who clicked.

It's a really individualistic approach to her specific needs.

The recomedations have been really helpful, such as positioning her desk in a such a way to face a wall, but not at the back of the room so shes not isolated. She already had safe space tent, but apparently the design wasnt dark enough. Sensory breaks, alternitive approaches to engage her in work etc.

She has her lunch with her friends and a short play outside, and then moves to the library. This stops her getting over stimulated and avoids the after lunch meltdown.

Class routine changed, so reading is straight after break (her favourite thing in school) so it calms her down. Its a minor adjustments for the class but a huge impact on her behaviour.

Some of the suggestions were crazy! like asking the teacher not to wear red or yellow or buzy patterns as my dd associated this with poison and danger! so moving cloak pegs doesn't seem unreasonable!

She is the first to come in from break and her 1 to 1 takes her coat off in the classroom to avoid the hurley burley of the cloakroom.

www.autisminitiatives.org is the one local to us, but they have contacts all over the country and if they cant help they might be able to point you in the right direction.

Good luck! Her twin brother is also autistic but only needs minor tweeks, so what works for one is not necessarily going to work for another. In fact what works for her one day, can be useless the next!

www.autisminitiatives.org/ossme

That takes you to the relevant page Outreach Services Supporting Mainstream Education

OP, you have lots of good suggestions above.

Can I also suggest you ask the school why they are keen to Team Teach. My (limited, I am a SEN TA, not a SENCO) is that it is primarily about safe restraint, and behaviour control by the adult, not about helping the child self-regulate.

It may be that working on a Social Thinking programme, and/or Zones of Regulation are more helpful. The children with ASD diagnosis I have supported, have responded very, very well to both of these. You'll be able to have a look at both of these online, and see if they may be helpful to your DS. The EP at our school has been able to provide very specific support, training and suggestions for using both of these. We are a large school with a significant number of SEN children though, so I do appreciate that not every school has that level of support.

As PP suggested, a safe space, or quiet area can be transformational, as will lots of sensory work.

I've drawn a really horrible plan on my phone, would anyone be willing to look at it privately?

I would but I have no experience of ECHP applications! I need to think about it myself as the above provisions have been put in place without one, which leaves us vulnerable if theres a change in Senco/Head teacher/funding.

I'm sure someone who has an idea of what it needs to look like will be along shortly.

This sounds awful. And teaching in a corridor is not inclusion. He has a diagnosis of ADHD, has he been assessed for ASD? There are Team Teach courses all over the country so they should be available to the school. Team Teach should primarily be used for de-escalation and positive behaviour strategies. If restraint needs to be used it should only be because the child is at risk of injuring themself or another person. Any restraint must be recorded in a bound book with numbered pages, it is a rigourous and highly accountable system. I hope that your son's school is ready for that.

We are not going to pursue ASD diagnosis yet because he doesn't tick enough boxes at the moment (doesn't screen as ASD on the parent questionnaire - he has some good social skills when he's not overwhelmed, imaginative, not repetitive) but we're keeping our options open for when he's older - we'd only get one bite at the NHS cherry and the consultant who diagnosed ADHD said we should see if his symptoms got worse.
I think they assume they must restrain and therefore need proper training.
Zones of regulation was recommended by the psych but I think school assume they must ALSO learn how to restrain and use exclusion.

I’m a SENCO and my main question (apologies if you’ve given this info already) is why are they restraining him when a class passes by?

I’m concerned about the legal situation on this one- let alone the impact on your child.

He doesn't like the noise/busyness and tends to try and run off/run into the group.

And we are also concerned.