Does ex gang members working with children worry you?

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We have a big gang problem in this area and there also seems to be a new industry of reformed gang members who want to come into school and steer young people away from that life.

I'm sure most of their intentions are good but it troubles me that the underlying message is "look at me in my good job, meeting dignitaries, which I would never have done from my background if I hadn't been involved in gangs"

That said, I really don't have a better idea, when children can easily make £100 a day running drugs, it's hard to engage them in careers talks.

I’ve never seen that as the underlying message. They are there because they have got out of the gang lifestyle and can speak to children and young people directly about horizons beyond gangs, violence, lack of aspiration and early death through drugs or violence. They don’t say it’s easy, but they do prove it’s possible.

Oh I know it's not the intended message but they come in and tell kids how much better their life is now they're away from the gangs, but the reasons they have good jobs (or our most recent one met the PM) is because they were previously in gangs. With their (usually very sad) backgrounds and without the gang involvement, what would they be doing?

No, I don't really like it either. They're not all as reformed as they say they are and I don't want them having access to my children or influence over them

I think it's fine. You're discriminating against them because you don't trust them? Sounds quite judgemental.

Interesting. Is this a new 'naughty kid gets all the certificates at school for being good now and again/good kids get no recognition for being good all the time' thing that's done in primary schools?
Obviously I admire anyone who has genuinely done this and support them guiding children now to not go down the same path.

I don't know the particular scheme you're talking about or if it's the same one...but I saw some talks from CELLS (I think) at a school community day once. The school was in a deprived area with a gang problem and realistically some of those kids will have already been involved in gangs. I thought the talks were brilliant, but it was very much about how awful prison was (there were kids fainting and everything...he did get asked to tone it down a bit after the first session!) and how he couldn't believe the awful things he'd done in the past.

It depends if they are truly reformed of course, but most have. Often they have a greater insight into the drivers behind (having been through it) why a young person enters a gang and can challenge that and spot early signs. When a lot of professionals around them do not have any real idea of what life is like for them, it helps to have people who they can relate to so they have a different model.

No Docus, some of them are very good with the kids, some of them less so. I'm genuinely concerned that they inadvertently end up glamorising gangs.

Also, increasingly, they're offering one to one mentoring and some have really nasty convictions. Schools aren't allowed to ask third party employers for DBS certificates, their employer (they're usually employed through a third party) confirms that "all necessary checks" have been done. There's no obligation to tell the school if, they're only just out of prison or even have a murder conviction. Reformed or not, should they be in a room alone with children?

Eddie Mair while on PM did a gripping interview with a former gang member who became a youth worker.

Very inspiring & worth a listen. Might be worth playing it to the students too?

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p05tpvvn

god, no that seems a real safeguarding nightmare
I think ex gang members are well placed to outline the downsides, better than teachers or similar as kids will just think - what do they know- I'd say lay it on thick about the horrors of prison. You need something really awful in the negative column if the positive column includes 'earn £100 a day.'
A less drastic example but I grew up in a teetotal family. From an early age I heard a lot about the horrors of alcohol, and nothing about the positives, and definitely nothing about how to drink responsibly. When I found that drinking woodpecker cider at teenage parties didn't immediately lead to a life of addiction, I could easily have concluded that there were no dangers associated with alcohol at all.

I know StillWeRise but realistically ex gang members are going to have convictions, most often for assault and drug dealing. We wouldn't employ them in school as e.g. caretakers but we're prepared to let them form close relationships with our most troubled students.

Maybe that's a good thing but how do we keep children safe? They can't do the work if they don't form relationships. Hopefully they are reformed but how do we know that and if we can be convinced what's the point of checks on any schools staff?

Also, increasingly, they're offering one to one mentoring and some have really nasty convictions.
Definite no to this especially without proper safeguarding checks. Surely school should be making sure this is done if 1:1 contact is facilitated by them?

No Lumeme. Where anyone (except a supply teacher) is employed by a third party, a school has no right to see the DBS check or be told what's on it. We simply ask the third party to confirm that all relevant checks have been done. It has troubled me for some time that we don't really know what's been checked but have to take their word for it, but if something did go wrong the school would be able to show that it had followed the correct process.

The good ones make excellent progress with some students though,

That isn’t how safeguarding checks work OP- anyone who is working in school, including visitors if they will be unescorted (ie doing 1 to 1 etc) must have their original documentation (including DBS) seen.

The thing is if your child is considering joining or has joined a gang they aren’t going to respect anyone other than a former gang member. That’s why having them in the school makes a difference.

That is absolutely not right Arabella. Believe me, the events that led me to make this post have meant the process and requirements have been checked and double checked today, it's gone right to the safeguarding lead at the LA and their Safeguarding and HR consultants. Schools are not allowed to ask anyone employed by a third party to provide their DBS certificate, unless they are a supply teacher.

OK, so the school has no right to see the DBS certificate, but wouldn't the employers want to offer it? or is it a GDPR/confidentiality issue?
In any case, I don't see why the school wouldn't have a teacher or other school staff present when the ex gang members are working with pupils.
They are unlikely to have any safeguarding training themselves, surely. Even if they have good intentions they might easily not appreciate what boundaries would be observed etc

The schools normally checks on what checks the third party does and then doesn’t re do them, this being said I imagine for these individuals that the DBS check would highlight items right??

I really don’t think these people have great jobs-how much do you actually think they earn???!

I would think very few of them meet 'dignatories' and youth work isn't that highly paid.
In a former life I worked with a number of small businesses which employed exprisoners to teach young adults trades . They took far more notice of the ex prisoners than us be suited types

You need to talk to children at risk in a way they understand. I think it's a good idea, presume they are not just saying hey kids don't join gangs, but promoting a model of safety and resilience (such as bystander) and equipping children with the skills to be able to say no when their older cousin asks a favour...

The school is not allowed to see the DBS because of data protection/GDPR, although it's not new with GDPR. You don't have a chaperone in a mentoring session, it wouldn't work but in any case, these are expensive interventions, schools couldn't pay for their own staff to be present on a 121 basis too (but that's not why they don't do it, it would be like having a third party present in a counselling session)

They typically charge around £300/£400 per day to us, so they're earning well enough, better than the (legal) prospects of the children they're talking too

Either you trust the company employing the mentors or you don’t. That’s it.
DBS won’t help, of course they’ve got a record, you wouldn’t expect otherwise.
Those I’ve heard do not glamourise it at all, they talk of losing friends and of being trapped by threats of violence or actual violence then prison sentences.
If they’re charging what you say I imagine the speaker/mentor gets no more than £200-250/day. How many days can they realistically do in a year? 60ish? If they get that many days work they’ll be around NMW. Not exactly lucrative.

Of course museumum, although minimum wage only applies for the boursbyou actually work, theyll be significantly above that.

The fact remains that they'd be considered wholly unsuitable to work as a school cleaner but it is considered appropriate to let them work 121 with the most vulnerable students. How do you make the judgement as to whether a person/company can be trusted when the only evidence you have is that they can't?

I’m sure you could write to the charity/company and ask for their safeguarding and risk management documentation. I certainly would have if I’d booked the organisation. I assume they have their own system for selecting speakers/mentors possibly with contact with the parole services.