Student teacher taking place of LSA

[GreenTeacup]

I am about to do my primary teacher training SCITT in the school that I have been volunteering in for a year. I am looking for some advice as to whether this is normal or if I should be speaking to my course team.

The school have released the information of who is going where and in the class where I will be, they have not allocated a TA (they have in every other class). I am doing the uni SCITT route so be paying £9,250 and taking a loan to cover the cost of the course.

I am a bit aggrieved by it. If the school had offered me the paid route, I would have happily covered the TA role and only completed QTS but as I am doing the other route, I have chosen to also do the PGCE. 2 children have allocated support hours (one has 25 hours) but the school say that they do not have to provide a designated person as long as a person is available. They are providing another person to cover the day that I will be attending university.

Am I right in thinking that they intend to use me to fill the role of the TA? TA’s work so hard and I am not sure I need that pressure.

2 children have allocated support hours (one has 25 hours) but the school say that they do not have to provide a designated person as long as a person is available.

Depending on the wording of the ehc plans the school are in risky ground there. Ds plan says he is to have 25 hours 1-1 TA support a week. Their plan certainly wouldn’t meet his plans requirements.

I'm confused by your distinction between QTS and PGCE - what do you mean?

So there’s a class teacher allocated to the class but no TA? You’ll be the class teacher so I’m a bit confused as to why you think you’ll be a TA.

TA’s work so hard and I am not sure I need that pressure.

Er, you know that teacher training is harder than being a TA?

You can do the QTS on its own. The PGCE is an additional qualification which includes QTS. It is more work which is why the employed SCITT route usually only offers QTS on its own.

1st term I will only be teaching 25% of lessons.

I am aware how hard teacher training is. This is why I am concerned that I will also have to take over the role of a TA in the absence of having one. It’s just not possible.

But you’ll be in the classroom as an additional adult. What do you think you’ll be doing in there while the classroom teacher is teaching?

Well, at least you’ll know by the end of it if you are robust enough to be a teacher! As noble said, what did you think you’d be doing?

This is my point @noblegiraffe

I have also taken the PGCE route as I am finding the course myself. I will need time throughout the school day to work on my own portfolio.

Now they have made it so that there will be two of us. The TA responsibilities will fall on us to share. This is additional responsibility that I neither want or need. If I was doing the paid route, I would expect to take on the additional responsibility but I would not be doing the PGCE route.

I am not afraid of hard work but at the same time, I need to be protective of what I take on during this year.

I’d be more worried if I were the class teacher than if I were you. When you are in the classroom you’ll be expected to muck in, but if you are supposed to be out of the classroom doing prep, they can’t keep you in the classroom to TA.

It is normal in primaries not to have spare bodies standing around, to prioritise the needs of the children over the time and comforts of the adults, and for non-contact time to be allocated and detailed down to the minute.
By all means discuss it with your team, but take an inquiring, seeking clarification line of enquiry rather than aggrieved and grumpy about not being paid and feeling concerned about overwork.
Then you can decide if you want to find an alternative placement.

Are you allocated any prep time? Usually half a day non contact time

I will need time throughout the school day to work on my own portfolio.

Have you been in a school?!

A student teacher on a pgce should surely not be doing a TA job too! It’s what 30hrs a week to TA? Plus pgce is about 40? There aren’t enough hours in the week.

Also how can working as a TA all week result in a teaching qualification? They’re not the same thing.

A lot of classes don’t have a designated TA, they share one.
So the school might see a PGCE student as someone who could run a group, prepare resources, support specific children without them being a TA, with all the extra duties and expectations.
You need to know what support is in place for the 2 children you mentioned and if they have a specific, protected allocation of 1:1. And what the school sees as your role.

I don't get this. There are two adults allocated to the class - you and the class teacher, right? The class teacher will be supporting/observing/team-teaching with you when you are teaching the class, but presumably you'll be off doing your prep and portfolio stuff when you're not teaching. So it will be the class teacher who's lacking a TA, not you.

We have a student teacher in atm (secondary) she has hours timetabled to teach, work on her portfolio, sit and observe both in her subject and in others and also TAs some lessons alongside or without another TA. She had the normal class teacher in with her in all lessons at the beginning but they stepped back and then they moved to just outside the classroom in an adjoining storage area / mini staff room, they were not TAing for her.

Being a TA will give you insight into the needs of those children and how best to work and relate to them on a smaller scale before you have your own classes, it isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

Exactly @museumum I am not scared of hard work at all but I just don’t see that it is possible.

@spaghettipeppers yes I have. But I won’t be working in the school. I will be on a placement which is completely different.

I am not a qualified TA either. How can I support a child who needs 25 hours care? I would be letting her down completely.

Noble, The teacher is very concerned but they are not prepared to rethink it.

Also how can working as a TA all week result in a teaching qualification?

Our SCITT, PGCE and BA trainee teachers are in the classroom in addition to our normal TAs. The trainee teacher has some time outside the classroom for ppa type time and meetings with their class teacher mentor, and they sometimes visit other classes for additional experience.

I think I need to speak to them myself and get clarification.

When the class teacher spoke to them about not having a TA, they said that he had me. I am happy to do the TA role as I have been doing it on a voluntary basis for a year, but It was my understanding that my study timetable would mean that I would not be a replacement for a full time TA due to the number of study hours involved.

That’s ridiculous. As your teaching hours increase who will be covering the 25 EHCP hours? You’re supposed to be learning to be a teacher, working as a TA is a different job. You can’t do both!

I think you are right to feel they are taking the mic. Is the placement school also the lead school? I must admit when I did my training that the shared TA did spend more time in the other class as obviously we had an additional adult (me!). But you will presumably have time out and I’m assuming you have a second school placement during the year in order to meet your other key stage requirement, so what do they plan to do then?
The other issue I foresee is that your class/teacher will need to do a fair amount of observations on your teaching. While they are doing that, they obviously can’t easily be fufilling the class or SEN TA roles.

If you were salaried I’d say you had to suck it up and just get on with it but if you’re non-salaried you are well within your rights to seek clarification from the school. Lots of your timetable at the beginning is meant to be spent observing other teachers for a start - you won’t even be in the room. Plus 10% PPA and 10% extra student release time so another whole day equivalent out of class. Do you have a learning alliance overseeing it or a contact on the course at your registering university you could contact to raise your concerns?

Good luck with the course, I’ve done it this year, it’s horrendously hard but also really amazing and worth it in the end.

I’m confused by the distinction between PGCE and QTS and I don’t understand how this would work??

If the school had offered me the paid route, I would have happily covered the TA role and only completed QTS

How could you have possibly been working full time as a TA whilst training full time as a teacher?

But despite that confusion, I do feel the school are planning on using you as a TA. If you are working as a TA, you won’t be able to observe the teacher and learn.

See what your course tutor says.

@fedup21

It is only because if I was employed by the school, the school would have been able to dictate the terms of the employment and could have asked me to fill a role and take meetings after child contact time etc.

As I am only on a placement, I believe that the school should honour my schedule as they have agreed with my SCITT provider and should not be using me as the only other adult in the room when there are two ecp’s in place.

On salaried courses, our provider only offers the QTS without PGCE as it is too much work. As I am not salaried, I have opted to do the PGCE which includes QTS option.