Does anyone have experience of someone having their TLR removed?

[theduchessstill]

I don't want to put too many details but in a nutshell there is someone in the department who does not fulfil the remit of their TLR. Discussions have been had of course, but nothing substantial changes and changes that are made are not sustained.

What can be done, if anything?

You can't remove a TLR without leaving the money in place for 3 years afterwards so lots of HTs are reticent to do it - it's a lot of hassle without immediate impact.
The person could be put on capability for the TLR element of their role but again it's quite a lengthy, painful process.
The thing a lot of HTs try to do is persuade the person that they could avoid capability by handing back their TLR and going back to being a classroom teacher. This is the easiest all around but sometimes HTs can put pressure on staff to do this unfairly.
HTH!

Nothing new to add to jane's reply

I have known schools redefine TLRs so someone is still paid the money but moved into something they can't do much damage with.

What Janetandjohn500 said, except that capability can actually be a short and brutal process, rather than necessarily lengthy and painful. Most Heads would (I hope) try to avoid it.

And yes, giving up a TLR "voluntarily" is something I have seen happen plenty of times.

I think the giving it up "voluntarily" is better than the 'shuffle them somewhere else where they are less crucial and give them things to fill their time' approach.

Obviously I'm not talking about nasty personal attacks here, more strongly suggesting someone who is genuinely doing a poor job stops doing it.

Capability long and lengthy?

I had to "voluntarily" give up a TLR once, it was horrible.

Are you sure this person has a defined role and job description?

I knew it would be difficult, and rightly so in many cases. I'm the line manager so I know what they should be doing and have done all I can think of to help them improve.

When you say all you can, what does that look like?

I only ask because whilst I agree sometimes it is appropriate to push for removal of TLRs, sometimes 'doing everything' isn't always a case of having done anything meaningful.

duchess, that doesn't quite answer my question...

I stand by 'lengthy'. In my experience, the person involved often goes off sick (often with the collusion of their union) and prolongs the process. LA HR people tend to be inept and in some cases incompetent and this also prolongs the situation.
I speak from bitter experience of many HR cases!

LA people being inept now seems s bit harsh as a sweeping statement 😂 The majority of the LA HR people I have dealt with have been very busy people and for one reason or another, my cases have not been their priority. This has prolonged the process.

goes off sick and collusion rather gives you away there!
Capability is inordinately stressful and is liable to make anyone ill.

I thought it did answer your question, Piggy, sorry! The person has a clearly defined role and job description and title. They were employed to do this role, not promoted up. By 'all I can' I mean I have tried to communicate well about expectations and negotiated areas they said they would like to focus on that they had identified as strengths. I have set clear deadlines with discussion as to what would be manageable. I have taken responsibilities away when it was clear that by their own admission they were struggling to keep up even with classroom teacher expectations and just overall tried to be supportive.

The fact is this person is being paid to do a role they are not doing and that extra work isn't doing itself...

It's just that the sticking point often is, even in this day and age, that no one has ever written an actual job description for roles.

For example, at my school subject leaders don't have job descriptions. So, it becomes a 'where is it written?' situation.

Well, yes, I see what you mean. Thinking about it the written job description may be quite vague and say something about assisting me. So if the person does nothing at all to assist me, and in fact no more than a standard classroom teacher then that's obviously not right is it? As I've said, I've negotiated with this person and let them set their own remit to an extent by selecting from the range of things there are that need doing - I've not just issued arbitrary demands! I'm not SLT, I'm paid slightly more than this person and have two extra hours free per fortnight but I'm doing absolutely everything. However poorly defined the job might be and there may not be an exhaustive list as to what this person should be doing, they obviously should be doing, well, something!

Have you spoken to your own line manager? I can't see how stripping this person of their TLR helps you in any way?

Well it's not like I'm desperate to strip them of it, it's a horrible thought, but this has gone on a longish time now and there are obviously a lot of details I wouldn't put here but that make me think this is highly unlikely ever to work out. Therefore, that means that unless they leave or lose the TLR I will be stuck with no one to help me. Meanwhile others in the department/out there are prevented from moving up and I struggle on. Doesn't seem very fair.

My line manager is aware but isn't likely to do anything much. They are very much a 'don't rock the boat' type.

Do you do their appraisal?

Oh, it's not helpful when you have an ostrich line manager.

Yes, appraisal was a bit of a grey area this year as they had joined mid-way through the academic year. Next year will be clearer but TLRs are not appraised in my place so it will be tricky to address through that.

How are TLRs not appraised?

If they aren't doing their job then your SLT link needs to stop sticking their head in the sand.

Is there a chance that this post was offered as a TLR post to get a teacher through the door, regardless of how strong that person is as a leader? I'm thinking the sort of situation where it's 'teacher of... MPS + TLR for the right candidate' rather than 'second in ...'

Ultimately if SLT won't budge then you might find yourself having to make the decision whether that is the school for you.

What do you mean, TLRs are not appraised? Somebody with leadership responsibilities is only appraised on classroom performance? Who sets the targets?

I’m dealing with a similar issue at work so I’m watching this with interest.

We don't have targets - everyone is appraised according to the teachers' standards and there's no separate procedure for TLRs. Make of that what you will.

Despite everything I do love the school (well, not it's management, which makes it hard...) and have been there forever. It would be difficult for me to move without taking a pay cut due to my role and I can't afford to do that and don't see why I should just because someone isn't pulling their weight.

I'll go back to my line manager and see what they can do...