doing a full time pgce with two young children - possible

[thesmallissue]

I am thinking of applying for a full time one year PGCE either for 2019 (still places) or 2020 entry. However I have two young children aged 3 and 6 (or will be if doing PGCE in 2019). Have a husband who works full time but no other support.

Realistically do you think this is possible? Uni/ placements require 5 days a week 8am to 5pm with college work done in evenings and hols - which will surely mean I don't see my kids at all for the duration of the PGCE?
I also need a lot of sleep and like to be in bed by 9.30!

Be honest - if you have done a PGCE - do you think this is doable?

What do you do at the moment? And how much time have you spent in schools before?

Some people definitely could manage a pgce with two children. Others definitely couldn’t. It depends a lot on your own work ethic, how good you are at time management, and - crucially - saying ‘enough is enough’ (rather than always aiming for perfection)

And I would like to specialise in nursery or possibly reception, but probably nursery.

You might have much less of an option there than you are thinking - you might specialise in the Foundation Stage or whatever it is called now (so YN/YR or F1/F2) but when employed your HT can send you to any year group they see fit. I trained in FS but taught KS2 for most of my teaching years. And don’t be fooled into thinking YN has fewer paperwork requirements - especially if you are running 2 x daily sessions - twice the learning journeys, 2 x parent eves, 2 x report writing etc.
YY to all the suggestions to get some good experience in primary school.

I did PGCE secondary at 25 when I was single without children and it nearly broke me. I have never been so tired.

I agree with most of this! I did my primary pgce at 21. I was with DP (now DH who did all of the housework and cooking-I barely spoke to the poor man, to be honest!) and no kids and it was a killer. My school placements were an hour drive away and everyone got in at 7.30, so childcare would have been horrific to arrange. I worked all evening and collapsed into bed at midnight. It was very hard.

I have to say the NQT year was bloody hard as well. Responsibility for a class, pressure form parents and I caught every bug going! The year after was hard too, with a subject responsibility, reduced non-contact time and the expectation that you’re now ‘experienced’!! It got easier for quite a few years, but then the job seemed to change beyond all belief. I think it changed when PPA came in actually. That was touted as a good thing-release time, but actually-it opened the floodgates for an impossible never-ending list of tasks to do, that could ‘just be done in your PPA’.

The job is not what it was though and I wouldn’t actually recommend it to anyone now.

Don't be fooled into thinking EYFS is easy in terms of workload either! Ask some teachers how much time 30 (or 60 if you’re in nursery!) learning journeys take to keep on top of!!

Please don't do it. PGCE was manageable (DCs were 7 and 10 when I did mine) as I had a lot of support at home. However I'm in my third year of primary teaching now and it will be my last. My family are fed up with me working ALL the time and their patience has understandably run out and I am fed up with it too. It's a job that will completely take over your and some people are happy with that. I told myself I would be too but it turns out I'm not. Sorry to put such a downer on it - I was so optimistic and keen when I started out but have just been ground down by everything.

NQT year is harder in some ways as you’re expected to be able to do it - no one is going to help you fix it as there isn’t time! You are on a nearly full timetable and they are now YOURS - not someone else’s. The pressure mounts and it’s absolutely awful. Plus as a secondary teacher you likely get the lower sets because they don’t trust you with the big guns just yet. I’d been teaching four years before I got a top set - and then that was horrendous as the pressure to get it right was awful. Since coursework went it’s got easier but now it’s all about the exam. I feel like I’m now teaching kids to pass an exam rather than teaching them the skills. That’s ruined it a bit for me. Teaching literature is my saving grace and I don’t get to do a lot of that to be fair.

I earn good money and after 11 years I’ve got the hang of it a lot better so my work life balance has improved. I still have a cry at least once a term and the behavioural issues I’m dealing with and the nightmare parents (not all but some) just make me wonder if I could step away. I like the holidays and the time off with my son but then holidays cost more and I’m ALWAYS off when everywhere is full of kids lol. Maternity leave gave me a taste of normality in the week.

I feel I’ve painted myself into a career corner at times and I do love teaching. I hate the paperwork and the ridiculous expectations - or the complaints I’ve had for MY expectations - seriously I’ve had a complaint saying I told their kid off too much for not doing any work.

Would I do it all again? I honestly don’t know. I like what I’ve gained - pension and experience and the money - but I do feel I’ve given a lot of me to it and that’s hard.

I'm a teacher who did a pgce as a single parent of one child (she was 4 at the time). I managed it, but my parents provided the childcare and I never got to bed til 11 at the earliest. I teach secondary maths btw.

My hod at the moment, his wife is currently doing a primary pgce. They manage childcare drop offs/pick ups between them based on who has the most flexible day. That often means my hod leaving school at 4 to collect the kids because his wife in on a uni day which is longer than a school day. That leaves him looking after the kids and cooking dinner, she comes home, they eat and put children to bed. They both then sit down and work til about 11-12. So they are managing it between them, but it's bloody hard going for both of them!

So if your DH can split childcare responsibilities 50/50 then it may be hard but doable. If you DH can't/won't split the childcare responsibilities I don't see how you could do it without burning out very quickly.

How do you see the childcare working, OP? From a practical/logistical point of view, I mean.

Hi

I'm currently doing a Secondary PGCE, and I do know people who are doing it with children but I do think it will be a struggle for you.

Some things to think about:

-My first placement had a 1-1.5hr commute- so I was out of the house from 6.30-6.30 most days (left early as otherwise commute was worse in the mornings, and then I could usually leave at 4 in the evenings).
-At both placements I had/have staff meetings until 5 at least 1 day a week plus sometimes extra evening commitments- this means it's impossible to leave dead on 5 usually.
-Planning + marking + assignments + uni admin means that I usually work flat out whilst in school (about 7.45-5 most days atm) and then do at least another hour's work each evening plus 4-5 hours one weekend day. This isn't unusually and some people are definitely doing more.
-You may be placed in a different local authority meaning your holidays may not match up with your older child.

I'd have a look at School Direct/SCITT routes, as this at least allows you to chose the school where you spend the majority of your time- so can help you avoid the ridiculous commutes etc.

I believe there is also an option to do a specialist Early Years PGCE, but I don't know how employable this would make you.

I did a primary PGCE 5 years ago, when my youngest started secondary school. Basically, I didn't see my family for the year, and it almost broke up my marriage.

I never got to bed before midnight and was up before 6 to be in school or uni by 7.30.

All holidays were spent doing uni essays.

I gave up classroom teaching last year and don't ever want to go back. I'm doing some tutoring which I really enjoy.

Ummm, thank you everyone for your honesty. I really can't imagine being able to work till 11 pm every night. My youngest still wakes three times a night for a start! And I have never worked till 11pm in my life!

I would just have DH to help with childcare and he works full time - would need to look at getting childminder I think.

Schools Direct - is that where you train whilst working? There is no funding for that at the moment where I am.

I really want to work in Early Years - I used to be in Scotland where the system is very different - nursery until kids start school aged 5, so I wanted to work in school nurseries, but they are not 'school' in the way they are here (Wales). Welsh system is so different and non-school based early years work so poorly paid I thought becoming a teacher may be the best option - but, tbh, the system puts me off - the early formal literacy and learning, the testing, the targets - its not what inspired me to go into early years. Though apparently teachers are being trained to be research practitioners now, and I do like the sound of that as I have a research background. And I did think I had something to offer as it is meant to be play based learning here and I do know a bit about this.
To answer PP I have been volunteering in school nursery classes and the teachers are run off their feet.. And I do meet a lot of disillusioned primary teachers which is off putting.

Maybe I would be better off getting some experience in non-school early years, and then trying to move into policy or research work in this area. But then I really want to be a practitioner - a research practitioner ideally.

It's all very disappointing. I really need to get a decently paid job at some point. And start paying into a pension again!

Honestly I think most posts often require you to have something like a teaching qualification behind you. You need experience.

I mean this kindly (really!) but this (“I really need to get a decently paid job at some point. And start paying into a pension again!”) is not a good reason to go into teaching. Find something easier!

i did it as a single parent with no support. it was hard but doable with late nights and early mornings.

then trying to move into policy or research work in this area.

I think you’d need significant experience before you’d get a job in this area

I don't think you have to expect to work until 11pm- the latest I have worked until this year was about 9.15pm and that was really a bit of a one off.

Schools Direct in England is very similar to the PGCE- but you apply directly to the school and spend the majority of your time placed in that one school with a short placement elsewhere. It can be salaried (hard to get on without significant experience) or unsalaried- but you're entitled to the same loans etc as a PGCE student.

You'll still have some sessions in uni and can still do the masters credits- although I believe you can complete the course without doing them.

A SCITT is even more school based- you will mainly be based in one school, and have a short placement elsewhere, as well as some time spent in university based sessions. There are also SCITTs that offer part time routes for training.

If you're in England, these routes should be available to you- it's just Teach First that is only available in some areas.

It's definitely worth looking into all the options available to you alongside the traditional PGCE- they all have advantages and disadvantages, but being able to know the location of your main placement would be a big advantage in my opinion.

Honestly I think most posts often require you to have something like a teaching qualification behind you. You need experience Not in Wales. It's a very divided system in both regulation and funding. There is funding and regulation for education ( taught by teachers in schools, respected and decent pay) and regulation and funding for 'care' (taught by poorly paid, poorly qualified people, often young women). Not at all like in Scotland where most of the staff at my sons nursery were extremely highly qualified early years practitioners - degree level - the manager had a Phd!

I mean this kindly (really!) but this (“I really need to get a decently paid job at some point. And start paying into a pension again!”) is not a good reason to go into teaching. Find something easier! That isn't my primary reason - as I said, I want to work in early years and am trying to find a way to do this in Wales that doesn't mean minimum wage work with colleagues half my age (more than half really) and nae pension. I don't think many people think, yes, what I really want is a minimum wage job with no pension. It is okay, I think, to consider pay and terms and conditions when making a career choice.

*then trying to move into policy or research work in this area.

I think you’d need significant experience before you’d get a job in this area*

I know. I do already have an MSc in social research and experience of working in this area in social care, and experience of strategic planning in social care, so have some relevant background, though need the early years experience. Am doing a basic qualification at the moment to get practitioner status in early years.

i did it as a single parent with no support. it was hard but doable with late nights and early mornings @lkbbdg how did you manage childcare?

@Ladylance - I am in Wales - there was a similar scheme to train whilst working but when I phoned was told no funding available. I might chase again and see if it is gone for good or may come back.

@thesmallissue I believe the equivalent to schools direct in Wales is the GTP- it looks like you can still apply for it, according to this website: www.discoverteaching.wales/routes-into-teaching/#c2d578ce-1e1e-40d4-a267-d213eab96e67

It might be worth looking into? However, I'm not sure it would allow you to pick your main placement school like the Schools Direct Route.

Where are you based in Wales? Some English providers in Bristol/Gloucestershire will make arrangements for you to do one placement in Wales- so it may be worth looking at Schools Direct providers linked to E.G. University of Bristol if that would be commutable for you.

GITEP in Gloucestershire also offer a part-time SCITT route- only being in school 3 days a week might be more workable for you?

Hi,
I'm currently doing my SCITT training (primary) and have an 8 and 6 year old. I've been fortunate to be on a salaried route and am based at my local school where my children also go. At the end I will (!) get QTS but I opted not to do the PGCE alongside it. It is full on. I'm in school 8-5 but I also work most evenings after the kids go to bed. That said, I usually stop at 9 but occasionally I will work until 10 if I really need to. I usually do one day at the weekend. If I don't do anything at the weekend, I'm super stressed come Monday!
Scitt means you are mostly based in one school and there are assignments/school based tasks continuously. Your teaching starts with starters and co-teaching and increases throughout the year, with weekly observations. I'm going to my 2nd placement after half term, for 6 weeks.
My husband is out of the house 6am-8pm so I also still am responsible for the kids. Luckily, because I'm based at their school it is easy (breaki and after school club) but for my placement and wherever I end up teaching, the impact on my children will be greater. I guess the placement will give me an indication of how happy they are being with a CM at 7.15am and me not picking them up until 6pm....

So I think I've got the ideal route (for me, at least) but it's still not easy and timing with your children is key. I had planned to wait a few more years but the opportunity for a salaried route came up, so I took it. I'm enjoying it too - mostly! - but sometimes I feel overwhelmed.

Good luck with your decision!

Thanks @LadyLance that's all really helpful information - I'll look into all of that.

Thanks @Gremlin78 for sharing how you are finding it with the salaried route and kids. All very helpful to know!

I'm glad it's useful information. I'm not sure if the providers I've mentioned offer exactly what you want but hopefully it might give you some useful leads.

A lot of people end up doing a PGCE as it's the default option, but I certainly wish I'd done more research myself first as other options could have given me the same opportunities but made things easier from a quality of life point of view.

If you can find a part time route that might be ideal for you- it will take longer to qualify but it will hopefully mean you don't spend hours working each weekend, for example. Today I've worked 10-1(ish) and will probably do another couple of hours work later (or possibly some job applications!). If I hadn't had a snow day on Friday, I'd probably have even more to do today.

Next weekend I'll potentially have some assignment related stuff to do and an assessment point coming up (as well as all the usual stuff I need to do) and I'm anticipating having to do some work on Saturday as well, which is normally my "day off".

I did a PGCE as a single parent of a 9 year old. It was really hard. I worked til late every night ( after DD had gone to bed) and at least one day at the weekend. I definately spent more time with the children I was teaching in my placements than my own child and felt very guilty about it. I had to use childcare before and after school which my daughter hated. My uni didn't take into consideration whether you were a parent or not when organising placements. Two of mine were about an hour away. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

I did it with a 3 year old and a 1 year old. It nearly finished both me and my relationship. I really wouldn't.

I did it 8 years ago, my children were 2 and 5. No regrets, and it has lead to the work I now do which I love. ( community education in deprived areas)

I did it with a 2 year old, an evening job, a DH who worked full time, and caring for my mum following two heart attacks and a heart surgery.

Absolutely not easy, but I did it, and did really well. I studied every Saturday and Sunday morning, as well as at 9pm the three evenings I worked. The other four evenings and weekend afternoons were for family.

DH was very supportive. I had to be incredibly strict with myself, and there were a lot of exhausted days, but I got there.

I'm starting an MEd in September, with a full time teaching job, a 7 yo and a disabled, student, DH.

It can be done, but you HAVE to go into it knowing it will be hell. I knew DH was facing a long term disability and I needed to earn enough to be the main earner if necessary - that focused me.

I think the likelihood of it working would depend on wider support of your partner and family. I considered doing primary PGCE a couple of years ago and again this year. But then I see how hard people work who are in their early 20s, it shatters them and they give their life to it.

I am mid-40s with 2 children lower secondary age, a DH whose working hours are completely irregular ie can’t be responsible for ANY regular childcare arrangements whatsoever. He often has to work away and doesnt always get notice of that. So basically anything to do with the kids falls to me. And secondary kids still need proper parenting and interaction. On top of that I have ageing parents, one of whom is seriously ill.

All those things, combined with my age (I just don’t have the energy I had 10 years ago) and I think it would just about give me a nervous breakdown these days. So I have abandoned that idea for ever.

Good luck if you decide to do it though. Really gooos luck!