Am I the only one who thinks behaviour has improved?

[Artfullydead]

Of course, it could be that part of it is just my journey from NQT to experienced teacher (I started teaching in 2002) but I do think behaviour now is better than it has ever been (and I don't work at a school in a particularly salubrious area.)

Most schools seem to have a behaviour policy that works to a point and shitty behaviour isn't tolerated as much as it was.

I would love to know where you work!

Oh, I'm not saying it is perfect, in fact it is probably more that I have such horrific memories of really shit behaviour from 2002 - 2013!

But thinking back I do think things have improved.

I have been teaching since 1996. Behaviour is distinctly worse. What we don't get so much is the real outliers, who threaten to shit in the corner of the room. But every day deportment on corridors, things like moving around respectfully , seems to have deteriorated. Many students see teachers as people that can be argued with, ignored, or tutted at. The level of arguing back has massively increased and the swearing!! So much assualt on my ears. I actually tried to speak to two year 11 boys about the three times they said 'fuck this' walking down a corridor. They genuinely could not see what was wrong with this, sonce they weren't swearing at me. They also conduct all conversations at full volume.

But then my school does not have a supportive SLT.

Sorry, OP, couldn't agree less.

By the way, I do work in a salubrious area. Maybe that's why!

the arguing with teachers happened SO MUCH back in my NQT year. I used to waste about thirty minutes of each lesson getting kids to take off coats, sit properly and do some work.

I dont think low level disruption and usual teenage stuff has got better or worse over time (e.g. I was a good student but remember slacking off in a cover lesson, having a bit of off topic gossip etc).

We all knew that if we talked a bit much or didn't revise for end of module tests then we'd be moved sets, get a low report score, possibly get low GCSE results and it would be entirely our fault. If we got a detention then we sucked it up and accepted we should have brought our homework in. We'd push uniform rules (who didn't?) by untucking shirts, wearing our toes in the latest fad, rolling skirts, trying to sneak blue mascara in etc but if the teacher told us to sort it then we'd sort it and that was the end of it.

What I think has declined is the attitude of some parents and students where thry seem to feel entitled to high results but without doing any work. Or parents will see a uniform list and then buy fashion leggings instead of school trousers, trainers instead of school shoes, see a policy on natural hair colours and let their 13 year old go neon pink and then they complain about how mean the school is for oppressing their DC. If their child messes around then it's not their DC fault (It's the wind' s fault for blowing or the teacher's fault for not being a circus clown or a peer's fault for looking at them) and so a detention is optional. We are getting parents now who think their DC can pick and choose which rules to follow, so whereas we would push boundaries and accept the sanctions, some students now push the boundaries and are enabled by their parents who seem to think dying their child's hair turquoise and going to the press with a sad face on is them 'sticking it to the man'.

I don't honestly believe teenagers have changed. I think parenting styles have changed.

Yes, artfully but you were an NQT...

Maybe I am just getting too old for teenagers to respect me, but I find the only teachers they show respect to are in known positions of authority and ,sadly, usually male.

The boys at my school ahve always been pretyy misogynistic and entitled but thye have definitely become more open about it. I blame Brexit

and, actually, come to think of it , I have seen students proper shouting back at senior leaders. That NEVER used to happen.

I think the growing numbers of non teaching pastoral staff who nurture and mother kids is great in many ways but often gives them a Get Out of Jail Free card. And I have witnessed kids being incredibly rude to support staff and not being reprimanded or corrected because those staff don't see themselves as discipliners. There are so many blurred lines; the kids don't know where they stnad with adults.

In my school behaviour is definitely better now than when I started teaching in 2009. The kids just work so hard now compared to when I started teaching. In year 10 and 11 especially behaviour now is just so much better.

I agree that most students have to work harder these days. Do you not think this makes the disengaged even more disaffected? Those white working class boys have become even more volatile and -rightly or wrongly- they are harder to exclude, and people work harder to keep them in schools. It is great that they no longer fly under the radar and just drop out but it means we deal with the fall out in school.

And don't get me started on mobile phones.

Oh you raise a valid point about those staff who won't hold a behaviour line or seek to minimise poor behaviour piggy.

I can think of someone I worked with who would continually justify not getting through the curriculum with airy fairy chat about how they just needed a mindfulness moment (lesson), or their class couldn't possibly manage challenging work because they were weak and it was wrong to pressurised them (not a low ability groups at all, the teacher just liked to talk about anything whilst presenting the super teacher 'because I care unlike you' thing). They used low summer exam results to justify their point that the class were weak. It was obvious that the results were low because of too much circle time in y9 and not enough actual teaching. They made a career out of infantalising teenagers.

I still think teenagers have stayed the same as people, it's the adults who've changed.

Behaviour worse for the reasons previously stated but perilous combination of that and accountability that has made so many slt toxic and students feel entitled.
When I started ten years ago, it was the kids fault if they misbehaved or failed an exam. Now it's mine.

Behaviour is definitely better in my school than 10 years ago. We have a new head and crucially a new pastoral lead and the behaviour policy is so much more consistent and effective. For me personally being much more experienced has helped as well!

Fingers crossed my new head in September will sort us out!

It possibly depends on the school. I took on a class in utter turmoil last spring. Their behaviour is definitely better now. I used to witness

• kids point blank refusing instructions
• kids shouting at adults
• physical violence against staff (hitting, kicking)
• hiding under furniture and refusing to go to lessons
• running along the corridor to then throw yourself down to slide along
• children leaving lessons to go and play Lego or football in the lunch area
• children climbing on and jumping off tables or other furniture
• point blank refusal to complete any tasks set (they were about half a year behind when I took over)
• children running out and hiding either on or off school grounds

They're a million times better now. I did have to search for 20 minutes for one of our new children last week, who'd been hiding after a strop. The subsequent bollocking seems to have helped for now. We still have to figure out who keeps pissing in our kitchen...but I sincerely hope that it isn't one of my kids.
There's no behaviour policy. There is a very limited number of rules. No, I'm not at a special school. We're officially a mainstream school although nobody would guess that from taking one look at our student population.

Piggy- I think the fact that I work with girls in a school where the vast majority of students are from minority ethnic backgrounds probably plays a role. We don’t have any white working class boys.
I think there are far fewer disaffected kids in my school now and there is enormous peer pressure to work hard and engage with the learning. Our students definitely don’t see it as cool to mess around and fail your GCSEs. It’s also much easier to deal with poor behaviour when it’s isolated to one or two kids in a class. I remember feeling like I was playing whack-a-mole in some classes where half the class were totally uninterested in learning anything.

wine, believe me, accountability and kids blaming teachers existed in 2009 (can't believe that's ten years ago!)

Take an example :

Today , a boys' bike saddle had been put in a tree. Poor old me was the member of staff nearby. So far,so normal. A parent was parked next to the bike racks, with her window down.
The boy whose saddle was taken had gone full on Road Man ' Fucking this, fuck that, fucking cunt, cunt fuck'

I got a tall boy to get the saddle (that was nice of me). Boy whose saddle it was said' Don't tell me off for swearing, when they fucking fucked fuck fuck etc' . I told him there was a parent near. He glared, turned to a boy and said 'fucking cunt'. I asked his name . he said' I'm not telling you that because you'll just ...' and then proceeded to mimic a female voice. To be fair, he didn't swear at me. He then unleashed a few more cuntfucks and wheelied out of the car park, endangering himslef and causing consternation to car drivers 9don't get me started on our crazy car park).

This is, sadly, not now unusual. 10 years ago, much of that still would have happened, without the reaction to me, or the parent.

Behaviour certainly has not got better.

If I report this (don't know his name, though), SLT will not sanction him , because he did not swear at me.

Oh , did forget to say, I did eventually force him to say 'thanks, Miss' !

Yeah, whack-a-mole describes my year 9s!

I wonder if there has ever been a time when teachers have reported behaviour getting better, parenting getting better, or do people always enjoy a good moan about the next generation?

I can't imagine people said of my generation in the 80s, "Wow, parenting is so much better than when I was young. And the kids are so well-behaved."

I guess it's always retrospective , and always relative to the last lot. But I know I will never look back on our current crop and say 'in hindsight thye were lovely' I bloody well hope not anyway!

Thing is Piggy, that never happens to me now - it used to be a daily occurrence. I really think you must be in an exceptionally shite school, honestly!

2009 is the very recent past for me, though

I conclude I need to go to a different school. I knew that anyway.

But my school is not unique and has an excellent undeservedlocal reputation.

I think there's a tendency to always view the current youth as worse behaved than previous youth. It's the whole 'when we were your age...' thing.

I don't think teenagers have changed much but I do think the adults in their lives have changed.
E.g. I Really believe we did most of the stuff my students to do push boubdaries whilst still being nice teens. The difference is most of us knew if we got sanctioned it was our fault. Now, most students still have that view but the minority who have Disney parents or parents with school sized chips on their shoulder are all too willing to undermine school and back their child.