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The staffroom

Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

Retraining as a teacher.

169 replies

WhiteCat1704 · 05/01/2019 11:46

I'm a qualified professional with years of experience in my industry. I have a job that pays well and, at the moment, is flexibile. Unfortunately my business is getting sold and there will be a round of voluntary redundancies. I'm considering taking it and training to be a chemistry teacher (worked as industrial chemist for several years and my diploma is over 50% chemistry).

The 26/28k tax free bursary makes retraining an attractive prospect.

I have a young child and if I stay in my industry and want to mantain my level of pay I will have to travel extensively. 10-15 weeks of travel within a year used to be my pre-child average.

I don't want to do that. My child will start school in couple of years and I want to be there. Prospect of long holidays at the same time as DC makes it very attractive too.

My question is..would you do it?
I would be looking at over 40% pay cut and that's really putting me off..On the other hand the salary would likely build up so it could be temporary..

I have read a range of opinions..some people say it's long hours and not a family friendly career but coming from a job where so much travel is required I find it hard to believe..

OP posts:
Bobbiepin · 08/01/2019 10:23

We don't think it's ok, we just know we don't have much of a choice. Those who are able to can leave but the rest of us are trapped working in an environment that we don't agree with.

Bobfossil2 · 08/01/2019 10:47

🙈we don’t think it’s ok!

BobbinThreadbare123 · 08/01/2019 10:55

You don't get PGCE in your single science specialism; it is a science one and you get your bursary depending on your chosen specific science. Goes in brackets after 'science'. You have to do bio, chem and phys. I had physics Specialism but taught all three, plus another science, plus geography, PSHE, maths and computer science. Only private school teaching allowed me to just do physics.

WhiteCat1704 · 08/01/2019 11:13

We don't think it's ok, we just know we don't have much of a choice. Those who are able to can leave but the rest of us are trapped working in an environment that we don't agree with.
Ok..but when I ask reasonable questions I'm accused of "arrogance" with people posting they "show the door" to new teachers who have similar expectations...
That attitude will be contributing to the problem.

OP posts:
WhiteCat1704 · 08/01/2019 13:21

Also to saying you are "trapped" and "don't have a choice". Of course you do!
There is always a choice!

Have some self respect and believe in yourselves and you will find a better job. It's not arrogance to recognise you have skills and would be a valuable asset to your employer. As long term teachers I would think you are resilient, dedicated, very good at workload management, exceptional at dealing with stressful situations, able and willing to work over and above what's required. Also classroom management and ability to deal with and keep srudents interested shows leadership and ability. Teaching students from all backgrounds requires empathy. Experience from dealing with parents would be invaluable in costumer focus areas. Also teaching several different subjects shows you are adaptable and flexible. Employers LOVE those qualities in their staff. Individuals like that are also difficult to find.

OP posts:
Bobbiepin · 08/01/2019 15:20

Have some self respect and believe in yourselves and you will find a better job.

My degree and other qualifications mean that I cannot find another job in my field without further training. I will not get financial support for this, which will mean I can't pay my mortgage. Right now, I don't have a choice and your comments are incredibly patronising.

People with your attitude don't last long in teaching because teachers don't look for the benefits to ourselves, as you have done, we look for the benefit for our students.

clary · 08/01/2019 15:20

It's not always as easy as that whitecat. After a nasty bullying situation put the tin lid on teaching for me, it took me more than a year to find my current job, and I had come to teaching from a different industry.

My kids were in school so I didn't want to move, I needed to earn at least close to my teaching salary and I wanted to make sure it was something I could enjoy. Not as simple as you suggest. But yes, many many teachers are leaving.

Jackshouse · 08/01/2019 16:12

Teacher resignation deadlines also make it difficult to teachers to get another job and then leave. If a teacher decides on the1st June they want to resign they can’t leave until
Christmas.

MaisyPops · 08/01/2019 16:12

It's not arrogance to recognise you have skills and would be a valuable asset to your employer.
Of course it's not arrogance to see ypur skills as valuable, nor is asking questions arrogance (as you've claimed people have said earlier).
It is a bit arrogant to take the approach you did up thread of essentially 'but I'm from industry and I only want to teach one of the three sciences taught in schools, you'd think schools would be catering to that'.

I career changed to teaching. I know I brought lots of valuable skills to the career (and skills that really helped in my first couple of years) , but at the end of the day I was still a new teacher with little experience and a lot to learn.

There were a couple of people on my course who also career changed and they do a great job of giving the impression that they came from 'real jobs' and 'in industry...' etc. They seemed to feel (for example) that on an English PGCE where there was the option to do some media/drama that they should get BTEC, GCSE and A Level media groups because they'd worked in media and so that was obviously a much better use of their time than middle set year 8 English, or they'd want to change the long term planning to do a media unit with year 9 because that's what they liked (ignoring the fact they'd barely started lesson planning so had zero capacity to plan a properly sequenced scheme of work) . I have no doubt they would have preferred to get that on their timetable but the way they acted was like them coming into teaching was doing everyone a favour and they were so brilliant 'because industry' that schools should be rolling the red carpet out for them. It rubbed their placement colleagues up the wrong way and it rubbed fellow trainees up the wrong way because it came across very arrogant.

It would have been much better had they done what the rest of us did, which was acknowledge our strengths and experience and have the humility to realise that knowing our areas of subject doesn't mean knowing it all and that teacher training means growing pedagogically and academically (e.g. the linguistics graduates had to upskill in literature, the literature graduates had to get to grips with grammar etc).

As someone who trains trainees now, I see similar situations to my training year but frlm the other side and it is the sort of thing that causes friction and limits progress (often because when there are issues, the trainee decides that the staff must be intimidated by how much more they know from industry etc and can't see that maybe their younger mentor knows more about teaching than them).

Holidayshopping · 08/01/2019 16:20

Also to saying you are "trapped" and "don't have a choice".Of course you do!

But there is

Not agreeing with what the school is doing

And

Needing to earn £x to be able to pay the bills and mortgage and having no spare money with which to pay to retrain or being able to accept a job that pays much less.

It’s hard to retain the moral high ground when you simply need the money. Yes, teachers could say-‘this isn’t right’ and leave (at the end of the next full term, obviously!) and then have to take a low paying job and lose your house as you can’t pay the bills. Not everyone can afford the luxury of principles!

Employers LOVE those qualities in their staff. Individuals like that are also difficult to find.

I know many many teachers who have left in the last 5 years-most have really struggled to find work. It really isn’t that easy actually.

saturdaynightgin · 08/01/2019 17:02

WhiteCat the likelihood is, had I said no, someone from a completely different department with no language skills would have ended up teaching it. So probably best for the pupils that someone with an understanding of the pedagogy of MFL taught than than anyone else.

And that’s the things that keeps most teachers there - the pupils. Who would be left teaching our children if we all put our foot down and walked away?

It’s not as simple as supply and demand, a school’s budget is decided by the government and there simply isn’t enough money to pay for these specialists you mention. There’s barely enough to fund resources, which teachers usually end up paying for out of their own pocket

Lulutheboss · 08/01/2019 19:55

Sorry, but this thread really emphasises how little people understand about the education system at the moment. Sigh....

Phineyj · 08/01/2019 20:13

I'm sorry you've had a bit of a hard time on here, OP. I don't disagree with much of what has been said, however, I have worked with plenty of teachers who have made a successful transfer from industry or corporate jobs into teaching (I'm one, although I was freelancing when I career changed and not earning that much, which made the transition less painful - there weren't any bursaries when I trained as it was the year of the coalition govt when they suspended them all). I don't think you should give up on this idea before checking it out fully and spending some time in schools.

I just wanted to say three things really. Firstly, you would have more luck finding the sort of post you seek in a grammar/independent/any large school with a strong science dept and plenty of students looking to study STEM or medicine. An ex-industry chemist I worked with made himself very useful advising would-be medicine applicants and running the science department. He had good management skills, which his staff appreciated (there are not that many trained managers in schools!) This was at a grammar and there were points on the salary scale for industry and other relevant experience.

Secondly, you are aware that you don't need to be a qualified teacher to try teaching for a year to see if you like it? You just need to find a school that'll take you on. That's what I did and then I trained on the job. You wouldn't get a bursary, of course, but you would get paid. I got paid a little extra based on experience outside teaching but relevant to the subject. It definitely helped that they couldn't recruit for my subject...

Thirdly, you need to play the long game. Perhaps the first few years you'd have to teach a lot of Biology, or whatever. Maybe you'd have random bits of KS3 Geography on your timetable to begin with. Maybe you'd have to move schools a few times to find the right fit. But it is possible to negotiate. In all the schools I've worked in, it was worth cultivating the person who did the timetabling and Heads of Dept in subjects one would consider teaching as a second subject. There are generally more or less palatable options e.g. I was very reluctant to take on a Maths timetable (I'm an Economics specialist) so I made myself useful to the History department instead.

Money is tight, but lots of students want to do Chemistry A level. Schools have got to square that circle somehow.

Finally - yes it is hard when you have young children, but not impossible. I haven't got time to read back through the thread (lessons to plan!) but a lot will hinge on whether you have a supportive partner and/or excellent childcare. I found it worthwhile to pay for childcare for some of the school holidays when I was starting out so I could get ahead. I don't know how people manage who only have term time childcare or whose partners don't support their efforts.

Good luck. Don't write it off without doing some research. Every school is individual and the people who run them are different too. You only need to find one school that suits you and you them.

I also wanted to say that I have had so much help over the years from friends/acquaintances/random colleagues I've met at conferences or online, up to and including sharing entire schemes of work. I also had a terrific mentor in my first year and that has got to be a big part of why I made a successful transition. One thing I have really liked over the last 8 years is the feeling that I was joining a big family of people doing the same thing. I didn't feel that in previous careers.

Anyway, I hope that gives a little balance.

Phineyj · 08/01/2019 20:18

I will freely admit that I didn't understand the subject specialism thing before entering education. It is extremely confusing for an outsider that you are only allowed to train in a specific subject (and in a specific age range at that) but then schools may deploy you to teach completely different subjects/age ranges. In order to qualify, I was mainly evaluated on how well I could teach KS4 RS, which I found bizarre when I'd been employed to teach KS5 Economics and didn't have any qualifications in RS apart from a subject enhancement course that was unfortunately completely different to the material in the RS GCSE.

Actually this still sounds mad, doesn't it...

BeholdTheNewTablecloth · 08/01/2019 21:46

The mind boggles with the teaching a third language you've not ever studied yourself....I could theoretically just about manage doing a St Martins level 1 Spanish with kids or a year 7 class but I'd be teaching only one step ahead of them, accent all over the place and teaching in the target language throughout would be impossible for me.

It is possible to leave teaching and use transferable skills but only if you can afford the 10-15K paycut....so you become stuck/institutionalised to a certain degree unless you have savings and/or a partner to support you while retraining/trying something new/working your way up again.

mizu · 08/01/2019 22:01

Have t read all this but don't even think about going into post 16 education - FE. I teach in FE and have done for years, previously I taught English abroad and in private language schools.

The workload is relentless and we get paid badly. Plus we do not get the hols that schools get.

I run my department, we are an academically excellent department, most of us have MAs in linguistics for example and can teacher train : I earn £27,500 a year with a bit on top of that for leading. I have been teaching for 23 years.
But, I love it, that is why I am still there, I love teaching and my students are fabulous. My job is local.
Like a PP said, you have to be passionate about teaching as there is so much more involved.

ohreallyohreallyoh · 08/01/2019 22:51

If a schools can't hire teachers with necessary knowledge and qualifications they shouldn't be offering those subjects...And if they can't operate due to shortages they need to close and kids will go to a school that can. I'm curious-what would have happened if you simply said "no"?

You’re not getting it. Schools - even good schools - struggle to recruit quality candidates in all areas because there are less and less of them. Worse in shortage subjects. You’re not being offered £20k plus tax free to train because there are two people after every training space.

Some subjects have to be offered because the National Curricukum says so, specialists or not. And Where do you think 600 plus students would go if a school were forced to close because it doesn’ have enough specialists? Many schools are full, few areas operate with hundreds of student vacancies (if any). You can’t just house them overnight. Sure, stick in a few portacabi s bit you’ll need more teachers to deal with it....oh, wait....

And of you refused to teach you would be managed out. That one, at least, isn’t rocket science. We do our bests, even when woefully aware it’s probably not good enough.

WhiteCat1704 · 09/01/2019 07:52

ohreallyohreallyoh I AM getting it actually. Schools struggle to recruit because they are not competative with other professions. Specialists ARE there they just don't want to work in horrible conditions for very low pay.

The money comes from a taxpayer and if schools were honest about how they are managing-some not at all (A French teacher teaching German is NOT managing) and closed down they would force the government to act.

This sort of thing happens in other industries too- - forcing the government to do something.

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 09/01/2019 08:07

Come on now - it's not 'very low pay' and the conditions, in the right school, aren't 'horrible' : demanding, yes, tough, yes.. Teaching requires a level of flexibility (and probably obedieince to higher orders) than many other jobs. This isn't about being sheep (although the profession can be a bit passive, despite what the DM suggests), this is about being public servants.

You have DCs : I was in a position where at one point, my DS's school was going to stop offering Spanish because of staff shortages. He was excellent at it and chose it for A level. How would you have felt as a parent? That it was OK for your child to take 3 buses to go to another 'local ' provider? That his subject and future was deemed unimportant? In the end the school worked hard enough to secure a Spanish teacher, but it still isn't running in all year groups (and that Sapnish teacher btw was not a subject specialist : the one last eyar was a Spanish speaker, trained in Spain in hisotry. Thsi year he has a teacher of Italian descent who speaks Spanish but has atdegree in English. He has, however, taught MFL for quite a few years now, so people can and do adapt. I taught German as I said before and now teach an A Level outside my immediate specialism and love it). It's not a minority subject : 22 students had actually selected it at A Level in his year group.The other thing you haven't thought about is other teachers. A subject may require 3 teachers. they may only have one. If the subject is scrapped, what is supposed to happen to that one specialist teacher remaining?? It's not rocket science , as the PP says!

I am curious to know in what industry the government has done something. They hardly cried when the steelworks and mines closed down....schools have been closed and merged, usually in diasdvantaged areas. It is rarely great for the children and their families.

alansleftfoot · 09/01/2019 08:19

You can't close a school, expect other schools to have spare places for 1000+ students, make 80 staff redundant etc etc because they can't get a Maths or French teacher.

ohreallyohreallyoh · 09/01/2019 08:34

The money comes from a taxpayer and if schools were honest about how they are managing-some not at all (A French teacher teaching German is NOT managing) and closed down they would force the government to act

Teachers, schools, everyone else working in education has been shouting about the shortages for years and years. We have been entirely honest about the situation. Unfortunately, we are not backed by parents and the public in general as copious threads on this site clearly demonstrate. And god forbid we should inconvenience the public by striking over pay and conditions - the very things that might make the profession more competitive with others. The idea you can just close a school because it can’t find a French teacher is beyond ridiculous.

physicskate · 09/01/2019 08:35

Nope. Instead, you make due and have a Spanish teacher take some of the ks3 french classes and a science teacher take some ks3 maths (or because you don't have enough science teachers, a or teacher or students teacher or anyone who has more flexibility in their timetable). Meanwhile you're aware this is NOT a perfect solution, but it's the best you can do for the kids in these circumstances...

alansleftfoot · 09/01/2019 08:53

Who's going to close the school ? The Head ? And do themselves and their entire staff out of jobs ? How are parents going to react ? What about the pupils in years 11 and 13 doing their exams ? Other schools may follow different courses and exam boards and very few would have the space. Do you really think screwing 200 + kids exam chances is a sensible and popular option ?

WhiteCat1704 · 09/01/2019 10:07

Well ok. Would you be ok going to a specialist doctor and being told that due to shortages you won't be seen by a cardiologist but by urologist but it's all ok as they are both trained doctors?
Would you expect hospitals to make GPs perform surgeries as you can't just do it to a patient and stop providing service?

I don't get why schools are any different. Kids and parents have a right to have they children thought by teachers who are actually qualified in their subjects. We pay a lot in tax and ensuring schools are properly funded should be a priority.

I will admit I had no idea it was so bad until I started thinking about retraining and becoming a teacher. Now I know that only 47%!!! of maths teachers have a relevant degree, PE teachers commonly teach sciences and it doesn't matter what language you speak you can be asked to teach any..
I suppose that being asked to teach biology as a chemist is really not such a big deal after all.

Thanks for all the positive responses here but it's not for me.

I have almost 10years till DS starts secondary..I'm just considering saving for private education.

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 09/01/2019 10:57

Listen, I am nopt 'qualified to teach' two of the subjects I teach and I am really good at it (boast). It's not as black and white as it seems.

And in the NHS , one often sees 'non specialists(GPs?) until point of referral and sometimes beyond!

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