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Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

Losing my TA after Christmas- desperate

58 replies

InsidetheFactoryGeek · 22/12/2018 13:10

TA worked 1-1 with a child with ASD.

Child is on P scales and in Y2. They aren't quite non-verbal but do not speak in sentences. I can generally understand them now.

TA started the morning with some sensory input and some time doing physio-type exercises. They would come back into the classroom and complete one, very simple task and then have some iPad time. This basically repeated throughout the day.

I am absolutely dreading losing the TA and cannot switch off. Things are pretty desperate in school anyway. SENCO suggested a tent (I nearly cried).

What am I going to do?!

OP posts:
MerrilyWatkins · 23/12/2018 09:16

Totally agree 4point2fleet.

InsidetheFactoryGeek · 23/12/2018 09:19

Hi. I hope you can all understand I don’t want to give too many details, esp. about parents etc.

I hadn’t thought of using the other children- the child doesn’t tend to interact with them. I definitely wouldn’t feel confident sending her on a message.

I was looking at TEACCH workstations and I do like the idea, but the little one has very little concentration.

OP posts:
FloatingthroughSpace · 23/12/2018 09:28

If the child has an EHCP the school cannot remove the TA working with them. Schools are expected to pay the first 6k of intervention but there will be top up funding for the stuff the TA does over and above that first 6k. I assume his morning programme of a sensory diet is in his ehcp for example, and it is unlawful for that not to be provided if it's in his ehcp.
You need to get hold of a copy of the ehcp and see what support has been agreed for this child. I think your head teacher is probably acting unlawfully and I suspect the LA would be very unhappy to hear what is proposed. Do the parents know he's losing his help?

FloatingthroughSpace · 23/12/2018 09:31

Sorry - to clarify, the school cannot take away his support on their own. It could be an agreed outcome from a review that as he's made great progress and no longer needs help, his TA will be discontinued, but it doesn't sound like this has been the case here. The head really can't decide unilaterally to withdraw support if the child has an EHCP.

4point2fleet · 23/12/2018 10:00

Floating, it is very unlikely the EHCP actually specifies 1:1. They do everything they can to avoid doing that. 'Access to sensory diet' might be specified, but it would NOT say 'delivered by trained 1:1 available daily for 4x 30 minutes'.

Class teacher shoving a fiddle toy in front of a child would tick the box.

OP, you can't just sit a child in a TEACCH workstation and expect them to get on with it. They have to be taught how to access structured teaching, and the time they can do so independently built up gradually. That's why I suggested maybe the 1:1 could stay on for a while to develop these routines. (That is what the TA should have been doing anyway, but I know that is rarely the reality and what they actually do is 'look after' the child, sadly sometimes increasing their dependence).

InsidetheFactoryGeek · 23/12/2018 10:05

Yes, 4point is right Xmas Sad

Could you point me in the direction of anything which can outline the first steps of TEACCH?

OP posts:
FloatingthroughSpace · 23/12/2018 10:07

4point2
I know it won't specify actual 1:1 but it should specify a funding amount and what it buys (ie what interventions are expected). Eg "top up funding of 4000 per annum to meet the needs described". The school can't say that as they can't afford the first 6k they aren't going to utilise the additional 4k either and are just going to pull everything.

And sticking a fiddle toy in front of someone would not satisfy even the vaguest interrogation of the LA caseworker as to wether the child is getting a sensory diet as outlined in the plan.

I know LAs are often at fault for writing non watertight ehcps but the LA would not be happy to hear that a child has had all support withdrawn unilaterally, as it becomes their (LA's ) responsibility to ensure the provision specified takes place once the child has an EHCP.

Sirzy · 23/12/2018 10:11

Sadly unless the parents have fought for a watertight ehc they aren’t worth the paper they are written on. School will be able to put together a vague provision map which will account for any extra funding they do get.

It took me taking my complaint to the head of department before I managed to get hours specified even though me and school where both saying exactly the same as do what was needed

FloatingthroughSpace · 23/12/2018 10:11
  1. Tell parents to access IAS or Sendiass locally
  1. Mention to the LA casework service that his support has been removed.

You won't be able to run a teacch workstation without a lot of 1:1 time spent in training the child up on how it works, over a half term or so. Once you have that in place the child would be able to be more independent, but only to activities they can access independently and as a sole strategy I'd be concerned you wouldn't be hitting the child's zone of proximal development enough.

wonderstuff · 23/12/2018 10:16

I think there is huge variation in EHCP provision depending on county. Where I am they still state number of TA hours (and haven’t really changed much from statements). Parents should be able to get a personal budget if they aren’t happy with the school provision, this was written in to avoid schools putting inappropriate provision in place. I’ve never known a parent to do this, but I would be expecting them to be demanding it in these circumstances. I’d be raging if this was my child, why on earth has it happened? What are you expected to do?

4point2fleet · 23/12/2018 10:21

Floating all my EHCPs state 'resources ordinarily available to schools' in the funding column. No actual figures at all.

I have contested this, to no avail. I don't think it's legal, but that is how it is on the ground.

Maybe the SEND department in your LA are great. In my LA, they are trying desperately to ensure they cannot be taken to tribunal for shit provision, so it is entirely in their own interests to ensure EHCPs are as woolly, lacking in quantification and open to interpretation as possible. It is the LA, including casework, who want to be able to say Fred has his sensory diet because he has a fiddle toy on his desk!

FloatingthroughSpace · 23/12/2018 10:29

4point2, that is shit and not at all my experience of the LA where I work in the one which hosts my child's EHCP.

However whilst my LA is obviously good, and your is obviously shit, we don't necessarily know where the OP's is. Which is why getting parents to Sendiass and speaking to someone at the KA to find out if they are ok with this would still be a good idea. Fwiw I think if parents kicked up a stink it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny.

Russell19 · 23/12/2018 10:29

This is your Christmas holiday. Park it and take a break. Meet with SENCO first day back and go from there. I have taught KS1 and children like this rarely have funding yet so I have been there at least 3 times. You can only do your best x

Sirzy · 23/12/2018 10:30

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/398815/SEND_Code_of_Practice_January_2015.pdf

A handy read for anyone who wants to know what should be being provided. It’s very different to what actually is in most areas

FloatingthroughSpace · 23/12/2018 10:32

*or the one which hosts my child's ehcp

fleshmarketclose · 23/12/2018 11:47

Would recommend advising parents to contact IPSEA and SOSSEN rather than SENDIASS as quality and independence from LA's vary. What is needed is a well written EHCP with full description of needs and provision specified and quantified. Unfortunately many parents aren't aware of this. That way when schools cannot afford the TA the parents have the legal means to ensure that all provision is funded by the LA if needs be.

fleshmarketclose · 23/12/2018 11:53

Dd's has £39k funding stated on hers and £15k for transport but more importantly, like last week when told that a someone was leaving I was able to say well make sure there is a replacement for first day of term then as per the EHCP or I will want more compensation in line with what I received last time and will go for Judicial Review. Seems to concentrate the LA's minds considerably that way.

Effic · 23/12/2018 12:02

Floating - you are in a very very small minority and I’m so very glad that you have a positive experience for your child. I expect you are in London as school funding is so much more due to legacy from Blair government? If not, your school is a rare exception not the rule.

Most of the rest of us are in the same boat as 4point2 - there is a national crisis in SEND funding caused by the national crisis in school funding. And the exponential increase of SEND children with severe and complex needs in mainstream.

Full 1-2-1 provision for EHCP is no longer possible because the school has to make a substantial contribution along with EHCP funding to cover this. These days, this funding Is all being used to get 1 teacher in front of a class of 30 and some resources. That’s it - that’s all we’ve got.

FloatingthroughSpace · 23/12/2018 12:37

effic
No, neither LA is in London
My child doesn't have full time 1:1, as that is not what was needed (imo as well)
The LA I work for takes a very dim view of schools not giving support to children where a budget is made for that, otherwise they are literally handing out money for nothing. Without knowing what the child's EHCP actually states, and whether any additionality is specified it's hard to know what parents could do about it. I accept that the ehcp may be so woolly that the school withdrawing the support can be fudged over, but we don't know that and it may specify what extra they are paying as the two LAs I am familiar with both do. It's worth OP checking in any case, surely?

babysharkah · 23/12/2018 12:44

I have zero experience of this but surely all the other kids are going to suffer too if you are going to have to spend what sounds like most of your time with the child who needs the 1-1. It's a disgrace. Is there another 'general' TA for your class?

fleshmarketclose · 23/12/2018 14:02

Effic this is why schools should be supporting parents to get specified and quantified provision in the EHCP so that if a school doesn't have the means to provide the support the parents have the option of legal recourse open to them. Dd's support has always been provided because the statement and then EHCP is legally binding. If school couldn't provide then LA would have to, removing the support is not an option and school's funding and staffing isn't really a parents concern tbh. If it's a problem for the school then they need to take it up with the LA because removing support that is specified and quantified would lead to Judicial Review and any LA will do their utmost to avoid that.

imip · 23/12/2018 14:21

I wish every LA would try to avoid JR, but in fact they don’t and JR cases go on all the time regarding send funding. All LAs have numerous court/tribunal cases going on at any one time regarding SEND funding/provision and placement. It’s truly outrageous.

fleshmarketclose · 23/12/2018 19:56

@imip if you do get leave for JR then LA's back down pretty quickly IME. So at 9.30am LA were adamant they were not budging, granted leave for JR at 11am, total u turn by LA for 1.30pm giving me exactly what I wanted. Trouble is grounds for JR are incredibly narrow and so they do twist and turn at every opportunity to try and remove grounds whilst avoiding doing what you want and that can be time consuming and expensive.

imip · 23/12/2018 20:44

Personally, I threatened JR and LA backed down, but in so many instances it doesn’t happen. Atm, parent groups around the UK are taking LAs to JR. Bristol decided in favour of parents and judges are still considering their decision for Surrey and Hackney. A number of other cases are in the pipeline.

And there are so many more cases that could be brought, but parents are just far too exhausted or do not understand how the system works.

fleshmarketclose · 24/12/2018 10:39

@imip definitely agree with being exhausted. Our LA had twisted and turned for months though by refusing to issue an amended statement, we threatened JR for that, they issued the amended statement naming a school that had told them no three times already! At that point solicitor engaged barrister who applied for JR on grounds of irrationality. The day we got leave, so hearing in five days, LA did a 180 degree turn naming the independent specialist I wanted.It obviously saved them the fees though for the seven months they stalled so was seen as worthwhile to them.
I'm currently awaiting judgement on latest Tribunal, LA haven't engaged with the process at all, been downright obstructive throughout and then took a barrister to Tribunal against an unrepresented parent! They have lost 99 out of 100 Tribunals this year so feeling reasonably confident but the stress they cause is awful I feel like 2018 has been another year wasted fighting the LA.