Changing to primary

[SmileEachDay]

I’m a secondary HoD in a core subject. I enjoy my job, but have recently been considering changing to primary. I really like the teens I work with - but I think my natural style of teaching is quite “primary” - that has been said, in a really positive way, in a few observations.

In my head, there is room for a bit more creativity in primary, whereas secondary is essentially just an exam factory 🙄 I like the idea of developing the whole child rather than just one subject.

So - is it possible? Advisable? Has anyone done it?

Ooh Walnut why? What is better? How comparable is workload? Was secondary background a barrier to interviews/getting jobs?

I changed from secondary as a HOD to primary 9 years ago.

Initially the was more creativity. Now, if anything, less than secondary. It has become the same exam factory that secondary was when I left, more so.

My marking load is way heavier. I have 35 in my class, no TA. Maths and english have to be marked every day, topic every other day, guided reading, spelling and grammar also. That's a load more marking than I ever had in secondary. Plus it all needs to be responded to, every day. Plus homework.

The pastoral side is way more intense. You see parents all the time and you are far, far more involved with the child welfare than you ever are as a form tutor.

Your class will have more SEND of more severe nature. I always thought I coped pretty well with the challenges at secondary but i was gobsmacked initially by what primary teachers coped with. The high threshold for diagnosis and echp means you will have children that are not yet at threshold but will be by secondary. Many finally attain special school places in year 5 / 6 / 7. Expect to plan for children still on the p scales even if you teach year 6.

Although the hormones haven't fully kicked in yet, behavioyr needs managing more. A lot more. And you won't have a unit or space to send the kids not behaving to.

The planning is scrutinised far more.

When you have one class in a possible one form entry, you carry the load for whole school performance, especially in 6. The targets are often ludicrous.

In.secondary i did one break duty, one toilet duty. Now i do two breaks and have to run 2 lunch clubs. I also run 3 lunch interventions and 2 after school interventions because I have no TA.

Then I have to do the huge production every year too.

I am actually thinking of going back the other way again. I have kept my hand in A level marking so I could do it. I do love my class each year but it's far more onerous and exhausting than secondary was, for me at least.

I was a secondary HOD (and HOY for a while) way back when. I now teach (2nd in charge) in a tiny primary.
There are some amazing things - I can have fun, teach as I choose (within boundaries) choose my texts, swap English and maths/go to the field for science if I feel like it... Marking is OK as long as you keep on top of it. It's the other stuff that takes up time. We all do a club - one night a week I can't mark straight after school,and another night when we have staff meetings. I do 2 break duties a week and one lunch duty and cover the gate in the morning when our HT isn't around. The worst thing is always playing catch up. No way do I mark 120 books a night - that's bonkers! Mostly I love it.

Such differing experiences..I guess a lot depends on the school as with secondary.

Seems as though a secondary background isn’t a barrier to getting primary jobs 🤔

I taught primary whilst sharing a house with my sister teaching secondary English. She had more marking than me (it was 10 years ago and I know primary marking has got crazier) but she was astounded by my planning.
She would write a few lines in her planner for each lesson. I had to do 2 a4 sides typed for each maths & English lesson, and half a side A4 for all other lessons. No plans were ever allowed to be reused the following year. I used to dedicate an entire day each weekend for my planning.

And yes- a lot of interaction with parents.

I wouldn't have thought a secondary background would be a barrier, especially as the teacher of a core subject. You'd probably get lumped in Year 6 fairly early on, which is certainly not the place to be if you want to be more creative!

I would recommend seeing if you can do any shadowing so you can get an idea of the reality, although I appreciate you might struggle to find the time to get out of your own teaching load. I think what stands out most from your post is that you might be disappointed with the lack of creativity in primary teaching - it isn't what it used to be, although there are opportunities.

For creativity there is a lot of opportunity for that in Art&DT,music even ICT and PE . Even better if you can link with Topic (or instead of ).
English texts aren't necessarily set in stone as long as they're a good text for whatever the curriculum is. You can add role play in the planning too. So there are opportunities especially if not in the SATS year. But they need planning just like everything else and be prepared to defend it to SLT. Luckily ours do accept "the kids loved it,had fun and were engaged" as good enough.

I think that’s really sensible children

I think my other reason is summed up by this:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/schoolsweek.co.uk/its-more-than-a-phase-im-going-through/amp/

Yeah I don't like it. Especially the if "you're good enough they'll be smart enough" bit.

That's just setting you up to fail. Because you can be the most amazing teacher in the world,and the kids can be (mostly) happy in school and they can make progress (how fucking heartbreaking when there's very little or none no matter what you do) and it's all undone as soon as they're out the gate.
I work in a deprived area with a lot of SEN kids . We work hard,we try our best,we feed them,we teach them , we play with them,we are their friends,we are their safe space. And in some cases it's still not fucking enough and that's the hardest part of the job. That the kid you worked so hard with in y1 is still at the same level in y3. That the kid you spent ages developing appropriate social interactions and good behaviours goes home to a shitty environment and comes back even angrier than before. That there's no way x will ever be able to have an independent life and you worry about them. That children look to you like you have the power to make everything better,but in reality you're mostly powerless outside the school hours. That somehow you still had one fall through the cracks.

I love my kids..maybe a bit too much.

Yes you can get it awesomely right, and probably that will be the majority of kids that pass through your hands , but when it goes fucking wrong..it's not because you weren't good enough. You'll never be good enough in that case.

Sorry I'm being maudlin. You have experience and drive,you're eager and you have a goal..you should do great!

Rebel it was more the sentiment that there is a massive attainment gap and its st primary you can really make a difference. The language deficit is so massive by the time they come to secondary that there is barely anything you can do.

And I get it. My background is in pastoral care and before that teaching littlies with autism. I don’t believe the perky article writer’s strap line either.

Shadow a primary school teacher for a day or two-that will give you a bit of an idea of the differences.

Please don't think we don't know these things at primary - we do. And we try to make a difference. As Rebel said, whatever you do sometimes it just will not make up for home life. Sigh - very big sigh sometimes!

I don’t think that went.

I want to be part of the sector where I think you can make more of a difference- I’m not saying I think I can do it better! Far from it!

I’m interested to know what constraints you find when ‘trying to make a difference’ in secondary that you think won’t be there in primary?

No teacher should be writing plans in any form for anyone else, but themselves. There is no obligation to do so. I am no longer a teacher (was secondary) but now work with teachers, both primary and secondary and this is such a common thing in primary.

Ofsted and DfE have been explicitly clear this year that it is not required. It is a pointless exercise- what if a lesson doesn't go right on Monday and all your planning has to change? SO if you are primary and doing this, stop it!

Holidayshopping

Mainly the age of the children in terms of the vocabulary gap for disadvantaged pupils.

The vocabulary gap is huge even before they set foot inside a primary school.

Private primary absolutely. State, no.

Private primary isn't going to help her aims of helping disadvantaged pupils really is it....

Yeah, I know Yuny - I guess there is perhaps more opportunity to directly work on vocabulary and language acquisition in primary?

I know for me at the moment I can see what some pupils need in terms of language (and cultural capital) but at gcse stage there is bugger I can do. I’ve implemented some entry level courses, but juggling the curriculum AND some of the “closing the gap” needs seems impossible.

And if I have one more person asking what my department is doing to close the gap I think I might explode. Can you tell someone asked me that today?

No. Private school is not for me.

I’ve emailed our MAT to say I’d like to spend some time in a primary looking at curriculum there.

This was me this time last year.
I wanted to change for the EXACT same reasons as you it’s actually strange hearing the someone say the same as I did.
All I can say is even though it’s early days I feel I have made a big mistake.
I love love love the children and they get me through each day.
However, there is no creativity at all in fact I feel like a puppet/ robot just Teaching what I’m told. I had far much more say in my classroom in secondary.
I also thought I could make so much more of a difference in primary. I’m in Year 5 and it still feels like the children that are emerging or pre emerging need so soo much more support to get them to the same level of their peers and with 30 children and no TA it is a task that feels impossible however hard I try every day.
The workload like you I thought couldn’t get any worse. It really really has. Marking is far more intense and checked and scrutinised far more. The planning for each subject every week 2 weeks in advance is stifling and feels pointless as you want to change things anyway so why do it in advance? The planning is also scrutinised to death.
Things that seem ‘trivial’ are a big deal to primary slt that secondary wouldn’t have even thought was anything.
I also feel less valued and more of a yes man and like I’m now part of North Korea. I’m not allowed my own thoughts or ideas they have to be approved by someone else and if your books don’t look like your submitted approved plans you are in trouble.
I will see it through to the end of the year as I really do love the children in my class. I will be leaving at the end of the year though.
People did warn me and I didn’t listen and actually you will want to see for yourself what it is like or you will always wonder just be wary.

I wouldn't switch to primary for all the tea in China. Pretty much for all the reasons sunshine and rainbows gives. Every primary teacher I know has a much higher workload than secondary and has very little room for control or creativity.

Blimey, sunshine sounds like you’ve had a rough trot.

What are you going to do?