Teaching of ideology and sex education (parent question)

[worstofbothworlds]

Sorry to intrude but I have a couple of threads in feminism but I think I probably need some teacher input here...

Here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3414798-Mum-says-child-in-my-DCs-class-has-transitioned
and here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3417740-What-is-ideology-and-what-rights-to-parents-have-and-what-is-sex-education

So: the class teacher has told my DC that a child has changed from a boy to a girl; as this is about a child's sex, to my mind this is sex education. HT says it is not and we have no right to withdraw DC and they didn't need to tell us beforehand.
Anyone got any definition of sex as it applies to sex education?
Because in the information we have (that they have put out) about what sex education involves it DOES include the differences between boys and girls.

Secondly the HT (though I'm not sure about the class teacher) is convinced that actions and preferences are what makes the child who has transitioned, into a girl. Obviously this is at best an opinion and at worst misogynistic, utter guff and anti-science.

As schools aren't allowed to teach creationism as fact or indeed as one of two possible alternatives, are they allowed to teach this as fact?

Finally do I have the right to withdraw my child from ideological education that I don't agree with - I know I can withdraw my child from RE specifically, assemblies etc if they are religious - but the protected characteristic in law is "religion or belief" - our beliefs are in disagreement with this ideology - would they be able to force a child who was vegan to go on a tour of a butcher's? Or to listen to a talk by a livestock farmer? Or to be told that meat is ethical to eat?

It's not sex education, any more than a teacher being openly gay or pregnant, or having separate changing is sex education.

You obviously disagree with it and want reasons to complain, but that is not one you can have.

As for the other stuff, the HT is clearly wrong, but you're the parent. You teach your kid what you want. I'm sure when I talk to my class about treating men and women equally there are parents who teach them they shouldn't. Just tell them if it comes up that the HT is wrong.

If the teacher tells the class how she got pregnant, is that sex education?

I have to teach sex education as per the national curriculum and GCSE specifications. Xx is women xy men that sort of thing. Sex is how babies are made so penis in vagina. The science curriculum covers both of these and is compulsory for all maintained schools. Given that this is on the GCSE specifications I can't imagine academies not teaching it.

I can't afford the time for what could be a probably very interesting discussion about sex and gender. So I make the distinction between the two immediately. I also have at least one student who is considering swapping gender and I can't afford to expose them to that sort of discussion. I think while I disagree that you can change your sex I do believe that you can change your gender. I don't see anything wrong with that. I think being supportive of young people who are possibly struggling to understand the world and how they fit into it is probably what schools should do.

In the future of course it would be great if gender as we define it could change. So a boy can wear a dress or like pink without being told that they're a girl.

If a teacher tells a class how she got pregnant, I would expect that to be investigated as it's probably very unprofessional. Even with f teaching about ivf, I would NEVER discuss my own ivf experience/ pregnancy. Even if I hadn't undergone ivf, I would use only the vaguest of terms (and not personalise it) and a child of mine's conception.

Not only unprofessional, but I wouldn't want children to have that level of knowledge of my personal business.

I think you are possibly being unfair on the Headteacher. Think about the position that he or she is in.
As another poster has said, they are trying to help an unhappy child to feel comfortable when coming to school and to be accepted by their peers. The HT knows that this child could be a target for bullying and they want to do everything they can to prevent this.
Perhaps they don’t know about all the politics about this. I know most people don’t. Perhaps they don’t actually believe themselves that this boy is now actually a girl, but what would happen if they came out and said this? The child would feel excluded, it would be open season for bullying. They have to support the child.
If I was this child’s teacher, I would accept the child’s version of how they feel about themselves. I would stick up for them and come down hard on bullies. That is my job. What I would also do is take every opportunity to talk about gender roles and how boys and girls can do anything they want, that girls can be engineers and play football, that boys can cry and like the colour pink and wear dresses if they want. I teach Year 3 and this is already what I do.
If the topic of sex differences came up, I would be in trouble as I would not say a girl can have a penis. But at the same time I wouldn’t want to upset the individual child. It’s not easy!

A teacher doesn’t tell the class how she got pregnant. Sex education lessons are not taught ad hoc, but are carefully planned.
As I teach 7 year olds, the correct answer to ‘how did you get pregnant miss?’ Is ‘ask your grown ups about that’.
Thank fuck!

Godolphian surely easiest way to change how gender is defined is to remember that it is a social construct, not some part of a person’s innate identity. Gender is made up by society so can be defined as they want - and should be rejected not celebrated!

A teacher doesn’t tell the class how she got pregnant. Sex education lessons are not taught ad hoc, but are carefully planned.
So presumably the parents see the content and decide whether to withdraw their child?
Is there a definition of sex, in the context of RSE, that excludes what makes a boy, a boy? Because our school's advertised curriculum includes this.

Glasgowbound yes I agree that gender is a social construct. I would prefer it not to really exist as such but back in the current world we live in it most definitely does. I can't spend time on this discussion though because I have about 50+ lessons worth of GCSE biology to teach and only 30 lessons to teach it in!

Boy does not describe sex. Male does. Female does. As in all topics, language used is important, which is why this is a difficult topic to broach with very young children. They often don't understand the language used and the finer contextual and social differences in language.

From the other thread, it seems as though it's more the mother pushing the issue than the child (again because most children don't understand the difference between the words 'sex' and 'gender'). The HT is in a very difficult position as they must adhere to both mothers' opposing wishes.

Boy does not describe sex. Male does
This is fine at secondary level, but the school published sex ed curriculum LITERALLY says the difference between boys and girls. Not male and female.

Then your issue is with the national curriculum - not the headteacher.

I don't understand what you mean.

If boy doesn’t describe sex, does woman not describe sex either? Don’t agree with that at all.

You're angry with the headteacher - but you issue is with the language used in the curriculum. If this is a school that follows the national curriculum, you need to be speaking with people responsible for the language in that.

There are only two biological sexes: male and female. Gender has many words to describe it (it is a social construct, not a biological one). If you disagree with that, you disagree with the science and the sociologists (people who make up words to make their jobs worthwhile - I jest), which is fine.

Man and woman are words often used by the trans community too. And what is trans short for? Transgender. Gender being one of the operative stems...

Can a pre-pubescent child change gender? Do they even know what gender is? Maybe that's a question for the mother of the child in question??

As long as the mother's (or child's) actions don't lead to bullying which could create much larger issues for the child!

I'm happy with the language used in the curriculum. A boy is male and has male bits and a girl is female and has female bits. If that's what they are teaching I'm happy with that.
I'm not happy if they are teaching that a girl is someone who likes dresses regardless of their bits and as "girl" is the word the school curriculum uses for "female" how can they then use it for "someone who likes dresses" but tell me that's not sex education?
Very confused.

Seems a bit too nuanced for 8 year olds too!! I think this mum has opened a can of worms, especially given how the male child does not seem to self-identify as female???

I'm not happy if they are teaching that a girl is someone who likes dresses regardless of their bits and as "girl" is the word the school curriculum uses for "female" how can they then use it for "someone who likes dresses" but tell me that's not sex education?
If they are teaching this it’s outrageous, of course. But is that actually what they are teaching? As in having a sex education lesson. Or are they introducing the child to the class, saying ‘here is x, she has decided she wants to be a girl and is going to wear dresses from now on’?

They told the class that X is a girl and showed them a video of a child who knows they are a girl because they like dresses and dolls. As they are 6, even if they do not explicitly say "and that's what makes someone a girl", that's how you teach 6 year olds stuff.

Well, I would be unhappy about showing a video that had that message. I would want to counteract that message by saying ‘of course, a boy can wear a dress and still be a boy’. It would piss me off and I would have to speak to my Head about it. I might end up losing my job over this issue one day, but it hasn’t come up yet.
I can see why you think it counts as sex ed.
Are you sure the Head really believes what you think they believe? They are probably just trying to stand up for the child to protect them.
If the Head says ‘yes, you’re right worst, I don’t really think they are a girl’, then you could go home and tell your DD, it spreads round the school, the kid gets bullied. The Head is in a very difficult position.

The head (or the class teacher) could easily explain about gender dysphoria in 6yo terms though - we all know that A finds it hard to run and B finds loud noises difficult, well C is upset at the thought of being a boy so would like us to call them a girl, let's do what we do with A and B.

(And it really sounded like the HT believed it but the HT should be promoting respect for other families beliefs but wouldn't, for example, say "I'm Muslim like this family" or "I believe that killing animals is wrong in all.circumstances" if they were not Muslim or vegan)