I don't know what the fuck is happening in my school.

[HarrySnotter]

The behaviour of some of the children is just so appalling. 90 % of the kids are fantastic, but there is a smallish cohort of children - most Y8s (middle school) who are just behaving so badly that I can't see how it's going to change.

Current head is very much about restorative practice but these kids are literally laughing at him - 'let's see who behaves so badly they get to go for a chat with the old fucker'. Etc.

I walked past a classroom today being taught by a truly wonderful teacher of 20 years - there were two kids standing on tables, another couple standing with chairs above their heads. Shouting, screaming, swearing. He was standing in the middle of it all looking like he might cry. (I called for SLT, who took the offenders off for a chat and a biscuit). I don't know how to deal with it any more, my behaviour management has always been good but these kids are a whole other kettle of fish.

Btw OP , I tecah in an upper school so we get them from middle schools! I can well belive that year 8s push the linits because I feel like I am needing to start from square one with them in year 9!

I have noticed a big change in corridors in my school : so that has nothing to do with boredom in lessons or failing to access the curriculum. that has to do with the feeder schools (and sometimes parents) never teaching them basic etiquette in terms of responses to adults, behaviour in corridors and respect of displays, property and so on. it also has to do with zero presence from SLT at pinch points.

100% agree with this too. I was going to a lesson the other day with my laptop, various bits and pieces (too much crap) and came to a set of double doors where about 6/7 Y6 kids all barged straight through without even considering holding the door for me. Not one. Answering back is constant for the most minor of things i.e. asking a child to please hand out text book - cue eye roll and 'why do I have to do it?' etc. I honestly hate to think who on earth will want to be a teacher in 10/15 years time.

Yes it is known that children with dyslexia or other learning needs will often misbehave in class to avoid the embarrassment of performing badly academically. In fact if you look at male prisoners, a huge majority have dyslexia or other learning needs which have resulted in them not reaching their potential academically.

Tea and biscuits? I call BULLSHIT!!

More importantly, so do the wayward teens. They know there are no boundaries so they take advantage of the this and they get a cuppa and a biccie to boot. What a pile of enablist fucking bollocks!

If they knew, with certainty that their behaviour us unacceptable and that REAL consequences were on the cards for their disruptive behaviour, they would pull their heads in.

You see, by excluding them and sending them home, the school would force parental involvement/accountability.

Fuck me, this pisces me off. The whole, let's be kind to them brigade are hurting far more than helping.

World gone insane!!!!

Also mob mentality. Average kids are influenced by the general ethos fostered or not forstered in a school. You need a working group to tackle the issue from all angles. What are the core values of the school and how are these promoted and rewarded

Of course my ire is not in any way related to being born in the month of March.

But also as I said earlier clear boundaries, set consequences and all the staff in unison.

SMT can be kind/listen and have firm boundaries/consequences. Parental communication is essential though.

Sorry Labradoodle, I disagree.

I was one of those teens. There is no room for anything other than crystal clear communication - not with the parents but with the perpetrators.

Sadly - unless the parents actually have to take responsibility by having their child at home they probably could not give a shit. Directly resulting in their disruptive child not giving a shiny shit.

I work in Alternative Provision. The children I teach were not rewarded with tea and biscuits. They were in isolation repeatedly. They had fixed term exclusions. It didn't work. Obviously.

I taught in mainstream for nearly 20 years before moving to AP, and I am well aware of the issues there. And I have children in school who want and deserve uninterrupted learning. I think firm boundaries, consistently applied with follow up such as detentions and contact with home works for the vast majority of children. And in fact that is exactly how we work in AP. However, we do think carefully, because we have the resources to do it, about how we manage our interactions with our students, all of whom are actually in a pretty significant state of stress most of the time.

If any Head think Paul Dix says ignore bad behaviour, or deal with it by chuckling and offering rewards, she or he has completely misunderstood.

labradoodle, do you lve in some Utopian world where SLT acknowledge problems and listen to staff?

This is one of the reasons I left teaching. I was hit by a chair, spat at called a cunt/bitch/bastard and threatened with scissors. The SMT didnt want exclusions in the school I taught in. I walked into the staffroom after the above incident to find the child sat with the DHT eating cakes that had been brought in as part someone's birthday lunch. I walked out, resigned the same day and never went back.

Golden if you read my posts you’d see that I wrote about communication with parents and firm boundaries.

SLT are different school to school. A working group made up of a variety of staff plus governors. Outside input if necessary.

Well, I've heard everything now!! My son (now adult) has autism, extremely challenging behaviour but never ever rewarded with biscuits. Wtf?

In fact if you look at male prisoners, a huge majority have dyslexia or other learning needs

What's the relation to suppprtive parents and parents not giving a shit?

Which is far more relevant

What's the relation to suppprtive parents and parents not giving a shit?

Which is far more relevant

Also agree with this. Two children had fixed term exclusions a couple of weeks ago. Parents arranged for them to spend the day together playing on the XBox.

A common theme on MN is unsupportive or unreceptive SLT labra

I find governors tend to see everything through the prism created by the headteacher. It tends to be their only contact with staff.

We ahve had 'working parties' on behaviour at my place and training sessions and union reps have talked to the head. All involved being told we were quite wrong in our beliefs.

Out of interest labradoodle do you work in a school, in a mainstream setting, with children over the age of 12? Are you SLT?

It's out of touch SLT. SLT who, because they don't teach much or have behaviour issues, think it is unengaging teaching that is the problem. As soon as it becomes down to individual teachers, it falls apart. If SLT are not consistent in their response to staff, then staff will not be consistent in the application of the behaviour policy. And that is the absolute key.

My school took a nose dive a couple of years back, linked to the one and only strong personality SLT member leaving (all others, including the head were/are as strong as a chocolate fireguard). The replacement AHT decided to bring in restorative justice as a whole school behaviour policy and it just went completely tits up.
Thank god for new HT who quickly through that policy out and brought in a strict, supported policy and forced SLT to be more visible and made it very clear to the students the consequences to their actions.

We still have a 'hard core' that no matter what (they need a different environment, not a large secondary) but the general behaviour is a lot better

The point is that that when young people are disengaged (for what ever reason - difficult backgrounds or dyslexia or whatever) it can spiral and have long lasting implications. Not every child has parental support or positive attention

Pretty sure no teacher is going to disagree with that. The question is more how schools can support them to behave in a way that allows everyone, including the, to learn.

I'm not class based but I see this sort of thing all the time at my school and it drives me to distraction. The well behaved children see the 'naughty' children seemingly get rewarded for their bad behaviour. There is no incentive for good behaviour at all.
Speaking to parents only works with those parents who are engaged and bothered by their children's education and behaviour. Often the children who are misbehaving are from parents who either don't care or are certain that their little angel would never do such a thing so tell their kids to pretty much ignore what the teacher has said.
The kids and parents make the rules in schools now.

Do you not believe, then , that some children are just badly behaved? There isn't always an underlying reason. Some are just entitled little souls with no boundaries...

Happy to work with the more complex cases in way that helps them but we have to realise that not all misbehaving children are complex.

Yes a boy in isolation at my previous school (very intelligent, no SEN, no dyslexia) was whisked away by the Headteacher and treated to chocolate cake.

6 months later same Head is wondering why he’s still behaving badly. Well if the consequence of being appalling to staff and disrupting lessons is a massive slice of chocolate cake and no requirement to do any work, then it’s pretty tempting isn’t it.