Would it be “easier” to be an English or Maths teacher?

[FunRequirement]

I’m about to apply to PGCE programs, and I’ve got a BA with a heavy English literature component as well as courses for an Accounting masters. I’m not very good at calculus so I would only teach up to GCSE.

I haven’t decided which to apply for, but I would really appreciate any info here.

Which job is objectively easier? Which one forces you to do more marking? I’m not sure how deep marking(?) would happen in a maths course?

Which subject is easier to get a job with? I noticed that maths gets more bursary but there seems to be more job posting for English online?

A fair bit actually😂 and I happen to have pe teacher friends who'd agree with me

I can tell you which of us is marking 30 higher folios on a Sunday evening and it's not them....

To teach secondary you have to love your subject - you live it all day long.

FWIW I loved my subject (MFL, still do) and even that wasn't enough.

If I loved maths and English equally I guess I would pick maths cos you'll always find work.

I still can't quite get my head around someone who has the qualifications to do either maths or English at secondary level!

As a parent and a physical scientist who is shit hot at maths: if you struggle with calculus then I'm afraid this means you are crap at maths. Please do not attempt to teach it - you will fuck up the future of the kids you teach, even if you only intend to teach to GCSE standard.

To those saying less marking in maths. Since the new councilmen my husbands school has tested all his groups every fortnight, and I don’t think that’s unusual. That is a massive load of marking on top of homework.

EXH is an English teacher, then I went out with a head of maths for 2 years.... Both super stressy as core subjects but maths marking def better. Easier to get work too, there 's a maths shortage, English teachers are a dime a dozen. I would rather dig my own eyeballs out than teach secondary English based on ExH' s workload and I'm rubbish beyond belief at maths... I'd still pick maths though.

Your marking load would be way way less with maths and schools are even more desperate for maths teachers than they are English. I have heard 's/he has a pulse' said about being able to appoint anyone at all in for maths... so you would always have work! Though either way both subjects are under very heavy scrutiny for results since they are core.

Ochayethenoocoo

Its often difficult to discuss the hard work that teaching is when those in the profession are playing down the roles of other teachers.

Tsk come on... no one is surely saying that the workload is equal across all subjects. That's because it isn't.

I think this attitude, that every teacher needs to be a bleeding martyr contributes to why teachers have been treated so badly in society. Other professions don’t have this quirk of unnecessary suffering, and can openly discuss work/life balance with each other without shaming. Teachers need to support each other, you don’t need to eat/breathe/sleep your subject to a psychotically obsessive level to be able to teach it. Teachers can teach multiple subjects in other countries as well, as long as they have the right degrees. I would say handling students and time management is more important. It’s also good to know the negatives upfront and make a decision.

People can enjoy maths and English, people can have courses done in both, and people can feel equal about teaching either. Calm down. If you want to pretend to be horrified that a teacher has the audacity to question different levels of marking or try to make an assessment of which would be better suited to his/her life then you are a part of the problem imo.

Ochayethenoocoo

No one is saying that the workload is the same but it is different.

Maybe you should recognise that fact and not insinuate that 3 or 4 afterschool fixtures per week is less time consuming than your marking.

Twinningmum
Nobody on this thread is suggesting anyone should be a martyr.

They are pointing out that actually having enough secure subject knowledge and liking your subject enough to show some interest is sort of a prerequisite for teaching. We are also saying that approaching a new career with the attitude 'don't really mind which subject as I'll pick the easiest life' isn't exactly the right mindset.

Staff can (and do) teach out of specialism at KS3 when there's timetable issues. Almost everyone I know finds that more difficult than teaching their subject (unless it's closely linked e.g. physics teaching maths or the teacher is a joint honours graduate in the 2nd subject).

I've trained trainees who've come in looking for the easiest route possible. I've trained trainees with not enough subject knowledge. Neither make for particularly good teachers in my experience.

It is a common perception that secondary English teachers are a dime a dozen and this in not true. Many many schools are reporting difficulty in recruiting English teachers.

Maths. Yes, there is an element of “I will never get this!” from many students but the satisfaction and joy you get when such a student has a “eureka” moment is beautiful.

Maths skills stay with you for all your life. People say “but when am I going to use a quadratic equation in my everyday life?!” Well you may not use quadratic equations themselves but the process of isolating what you know and using it to work out what you don’t know goes way beyond just Maths.

I’m a maths teacher. I would say we benefit from less marking than English teachers but I do believe the teaching day is tougher. Maths teachers never stop for a second during a lesson as there is always some pupil who needs help. Actual English lessons seem less intense.

I go into English and maths lessons for bottom sets and think Maths is actually easier for very weak students to access - when it’s taught well. It’s a very good Department mind you, and it’s also a popular subject in the school. There are some very good resources that can be bought in to ease planning loads etc. On this basis I’d teach maths.

Out of all the subjects I see I think English is the trickiest to teach - it’s probably quite fun in the top sets but I find it a real chore even in middling sets, it’s so difficult to explain concepts that you totally take for granted. Also the marking and actually just navigating the gcse mark schemes are a pain.

I don’t think you can ‘objectively’ say which is easier but I’d go for maths personally - but if you have a passion for English then you might enjoy it more than I would.

Maisypops

No gushing over sentimentality is needed but I would say actually wanting to teach a subject is a fairly basic requirement.

The OP does want to teach both but she’s asking which she should specialise in

Someone going into teaching not bothered about their subject, fancied a change and picked whichever route they thought was easiest is unlikely to last long in the profession (And in my experience also tend to be the trainees who at the most difficult to train).

The OP does not say she’s not bothered. Quite the opposite she’s looking at a variety of options to ensure her happiness. And as you say in your experience- which is not universal.

AppleKatie
People should pick the subject they are specialist in and have a desire to teach with passion.
English and maths are very different.

What makes a difference for happiness is the school you work In, not the subject.

I would agree - except that it is perfectly possible for the OP to be a specialist in two subjects but needing to pick one for the purposes of a PGCE course? Why is that hard to understand?

Subject boxes are so narrow. Good teachers generally have a much broader range of knowledge than just the subject they ‘specialised’ in at PGCE.

As for your final sentence patently that is only part of the issue. Of course school counts but subject is also important as are a number of other factors.

English is easier to teach day to day and the planning is easier. Maths has less time consuming marking.

If you’re calculus isn’t good then you wouldn’t be able to teach the GCSE further maths qualification or A-level. You would not be overly appealing to a school.

I would go for English.

except that it is perfectly possible for the OP to be a specialist in two subjects but needing to pick one for the purposes of a PGCE course? Why is that hard to understand?
I'm a joint honours graduate and can (and have) taught both.
Yes good teachers know more than just their subject but anyone who suggests my general knowledge is at all comparable to a specialist would be daft. Could I teach y7 geography? Probably I have it to GCSE. Is that comparable to a geography specialist teaching it? No.
It's like when schools prop up English departments with people who aren't English specialists (sad reality). Just because someone likes books and reads a lot doesn't make them a good English teacher.
I'm not doubting some teachers have 2 specialisms. Others end up picking extra subjects because needs must.

I do dispute that a degree with a weighting towards English and an accountancy course with a substantial knowledge gap in an area of maths is someone with 2 specialisms. That's someone with an English specialism.

The logical answer would be to ignore what is apparently the easier pathway and teach English as that's where the specialism is.

I went to uni with someone who got a lit degree but he teaches maths.

English is very heavy on the marking.

And of course you don't have to teach A level. No schools where I am have sixth forms.