Has behaviour gotten worse?

[bandthenjust]

Hi everyone, just wanted to know your thoughts.

Would you say the behaviour of children in general has gone downhill in the classroom? If so, what do you think the cause of it is?

This afternoon I was being nosey and read through some of the threads on this board; some from teachers who are sick of the behaviour of pupils, and their stories were awful.
I stopped nursery-nursing about ten years ago, mainly because I was sick of the way nurseries operated. There was always a few kids that were disruptive, but never on the same level as what I've heard on here and other places.
I volunteered in my daughter's former year 1 class last year, and what I witnessed was unbelievable! One of the teachers at the time said it's 'across the board '.
Would you say it is?

It probably varies from school to school but in my school behaviour is noticeably better than when I started teaching (at the same school) a decade ago.

Depends.

I think behaviour isn't so bad but I teach in a nice school.

I do think attitudes and values are worse. This information the behaviour and arsiness of many kids.

Over the ten years I've been teaching I would say that yes behaviour has got far worse. This year so far I've been called a spastic, a twat, sworn at, pinched, my colleague has been called a fat cunt, a supply was told she sucks weaners. These children are in year 3 and just 7 years old. The other year groups are just as bad. Although this behaviour is extreme general behaviour has gone downhill too.

I think it's a reflection of current society. I think more families have 2 full time working parents, I truly believe that children need a parent at home at least for part of the week (2 full time workers seems to lead to parental guilt and more Disney like parent behaviour), lack of respect between people in society (lots of people lack basic manners, barge into you, are aggressive and rude), a definite lack of respect for teachers and schools, an increase in technology and decrease in spending quality time as a family.

Yes, I've found it has got steadily worse.

A lot I believe is down to entitlement and lack of respect.

Blaming technology is ridiculous.

Blaming technology is ridiculous.

Is it? Why?

I maybe thought I noticed these ty pes of changes because I'm simply getting older lol, but I'm SURE my peers at school were never as bad as some of the kids I've met.
I actually took both of my kids out of school earlier this year to home educate them, mainly because of the environment of their classes and the effect it was hav ing on them. If I hadn't volunteered and seen first hand what was going on, I 'd probably dismiss it and think 'what are the bloody teachers doing?!', at the school my kids were at, the teacher's couldn't have done more!

It depends on the school.

Personally I think what has changed are attitudes to school.

There seems to be a generation of parents now who've got a school sized chip on their shoulder and seem to love backing their child over school in a bid to win some ongoing battle they have going on in their head. Usual things like uniform doesn't apply to my child, you can't keep them in detention etc.
Equally, there are some who think schools should ensure their children get grades regardless of their child's effort or attitude. There's not enough personal responsibility placed on students.

But it goes without saying that the vast vast majority of students are well behaved and the vast vast majority of parents are supportive.

the teacher's couldn't have done more!

And boy do the kids know this.

maisypops do you thi nk there's just an 'entitlement ' attitude amongst society in general? I've noticed it before in schools - parent's kicking off because their child is n't on a certain set of reading books yet her friend's kid is and whinging about uniform - school shoes seem to cause the biggest upset lol.

www.usatoday.com/story/life/allthemoms/2018/09/19/meet-lawnmower-parent-new-helicopter-parents-types-parents-tiger-attachment/1347358002/

This rings true for me.

bandthenjust
I'm wary to say in general because I don't believe that most people have that approach or attitude. It's easy to focus and dwell on the loud obnoxious and entitled few and forget that most people at happy, supportive and are getting on.

I do think the minority is bigger and louder now.

Just read that article, missmarplesknitting, thanks for sharing it. I heard the term 'lawnmower parent' somewhere on Mumsnet earlier and had no idea what it meant lol. I heard someone say (tv I think) that children are viewed as 'snowflakes' today, and some parent's struggle to see things beyond their own kid.
maisypops I guess it only takes a small number of morons to make it feel like there's many more lol

Yes, in my experience.

Definitely a culture of ‘I always support the school but...’ from parents. In secondaries teachers are much more invested in their students results than students are, this is supported by SLT holding staff 100% responsibile for results.

I'm new to teaching, so haven't seen the change as a teacher, but a long time ago in a county far far away I went to a fairly shit comp. I now teach in a comparable area/school I think.

I feel like it's respect for adults in general that has declined, the arguing back is probably what's shocked me the most (placement schools were good, I was unprepared). You give them a sanction and they argue, the other pupils join in, telling you 'Mr X lets us do that, Mrs Y lets us do this' (to be fair inconsistent enforcement of the behaviour system is one of the reasons this school is RI).

To be honest I'm not sure how much of this is them and how much is me being new (everyone had said their first year was bad, even people who came in experienced).

The entitlement - 'Miss, Miss, Miss!' Like they are the only one in the room. 'Are we doing a practical?' As they walk in the room. I would have barely managed 'Morning' to the teacher when I was their age.

The shouting out of utterly random things - think Ralph from the Simpson's but louder.

Waiting for quiet - fml - they start shushing each other, shouting at each other to be quiet, arguing about who was talking, sanction them and it's not fair cos z was talking too, sanction all of them (not actually all, there's a few that are actually quiet) and it becomes a game to see who can get detention first, then when they get detention it's unfair.

Of course, every time someone tries to observe this they're good because it's a teacher they know!

This is one year group though, the others are ok.

Although - what happens to them in the summer before y7? I've seen primary - the kids in y4 are more independent than my Y7s 'Miss, where should I draw that? See, I've stuck this in and I only have 3 lines left, and that table is too big?' - use the next page Timmy, use the next page.

Parental buy in seems pretty good where I am, but I think the school takes quite a hard 'our way or the highway' approach to them doing their detentions, etc.

I think behaviour has got more difficult to manage over the past decade and I think some of that has been due to the rise in parenting techniques that involve explaining everything to children who have done something wrong. Parents going ‘Johnny, you hit Josh, how do you think Josh is feeling? Do you think that was the right thing to do? That’s right, Josh probably has a sore arm and that feels bad, just like you did when Amy trod on your toe. Now what do you think you need to do? That’s right, go over and say sorry to Josh. Good choice’.

It means that you have kids who think they have the right to endlessly discuss things with you when you just want them to sit down and shut up. ‘I was just....’. They don’t accept a teacher’s word as final, or an instruction as something that needs to be followed straight away, and it is bloody irritating when there are 30 other kids waiting for you to get on with teaching.

I work in a PRU (where excluded kids end up) and the children we see are far more damaged than they used to be. There were always damaged children, but it seems more extreme now and we don't get any that are just "naughty" anymore

I think there are two reasons for that, schools have got much better at managing "naughty" behaviour and they are less able to exclude children for anything but the most extreme behaviour

Johnny, you hit Josh, how do you think Josh is feeling? Do you think that was the right thing to do? That’s right, Josh probably has a sore arm and that feels bad, just like you did when Amy trod on your toe. Now what do you think you need to do? That’s right, go over and say sorry to Josh. Good choice’.

So very true.

They turn into the teens we hear on here when people post ^I don't teach my children to blindly follow authority. If a teacher doesn't explain themselves properly then why should my child follow their instructions. No explanation tells my child it's a pointless rule and I have a policy of not having pointless rules'.

So 'write the date and title...' 20 mins later 'Timmy I said write the date and title. Becomes 'why? But I don't need It. Why do I need the date? It's a waste of time as it's not helping me learn etc

Something m y daughter's former teacher told me was that ther e's a n increase in children with sen, but not enough help and support for the teacher's (and then, the child). She told me that the TA and herself were not qualified to work with some of the kids in the class, and tha t they were 'winging it'. She also said that some of the other kids were almost 'imitating' some of t he behaviour, and when they were told off or whatever, the kids argued back ' x didn't get in trouble!'.

That said, I my experience of my DC's friends is that teenagers are much nicer to each other than they used to be and more supportive of each other's efforts and successes. There's no shame in being a swot anymore, even the kids at the PRU are pleased for each other when they've done well

bestseller what is classed as extreme behaviour? Is it repeated violence etc?

noblegiraffe haha, Iv e met th ose kids, and adults, that think smart-alecky remarks are forms of intelligence.

It's a mix of so many things. Social and financial background, parents attitudes to learning and schools in general, "you can't touch me" attitude, namby pamby SLT that talk about consequences and right choices but some kids do whatever the hell they please,and eventually others join in and are rightly outraged at being in trouble themselves.

I've been called names, I've been hit,threatened and treated like shit because "you're just a TA". Despite that , I still form quite strong bonds with the majority of the kids and I miss them once I get a new class.

In some (but not all) schools drugs in school will get you excluded. Knives are usually one strike and you're out. Repeated sexual or racial threats will probably eventually get a child excluded.

Violent threats not of a sexual or racist nature won't usually result in exclusion unless they start following them through. Low level bullying and disruption won't be enough in most schools in our area.

We never see a child who does these things for "fun" though. They all have a heartbreaking story.

I find Yr7 very draining. The same issues as PP- they can’t do anything without check long with you when it comes to starting a new page or underlining but will not listen to instructions and just start writing.

I’ve found behaviour much better in secondary than FE. In FE I was called a c- by a student after bending over backwards to give him more time to complete an assessment.

I haven’t been in British schools long enough to notice a change but I definitely notice the ‘everything up for negotiation’ trend and my school is also distinctly lacking ‘a bollocker’. Like sometimes you need a terrifying deputy head to come and bollock an entire year group in assembly. Not regularly obv but it’s good to have one available for when you need it.