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Original poster

Is this legal?

28 replies

Bobbiepin · 17/09/2018 14:50

I applied for a job last week in a Catholic school (note, I'm not Catholic, or even Christian). On the application form with the personal details there's a spot for religion. Now I'm happy to fill in the equal opportunities form but I get the feeling that because I've been honest about my faith that my application will be thrown in the bin.

Is it legal to have that on the main application form or is it different for a faith school?

OP posts:
DinahMorris · 17/09/2018 17:28

I think that's normal for Catholic schools. Don't know how they get away with it legally tbh. Equally, my previous school (which was Catholic) had a huge number of non-Catholic teaching staff tho, so I don't know if they even use the info.

Original poster
Bobbiepin · 17/09/2018 17:55

I don't even know who I would register a complaint with. Dfe? Not heard anything from them and interviews are tomorrow so I think its safe to assume that its not happening.

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noblegiraffe · 17/09/2018 18:56

You’d be asked how you would uphold the catholic ethos of the school which would presumably be easier if you were catholic, so would it not count as a qualification?

If they only accepted applications from Catholics though they’d be very short of teachers.

noblegiraffe · 17/09/2018 19:05

I just looked it up, religious schools are allowed to discriminate in their hiring decisions on the basis of religion.

Is this legal?
TheFallenMadonna · 17/09/2018 19:06

Yes, it's legal.

DumbledoresApprentice · 17/09/2018 19:14

It’s normal in Catholic schools. In reality unless you are applying for a SLT post or to teach RE it is unlikely to influence the decision for hiring even though legally it can be used as a criteria. I’ve been on the interview panel at my school a few times for non-RE jobs and applications from non-catholics were not ruled out. In fact, only one of the panels I’ve been involved with resulted in a Catholic being hired and on that occasion all 3 of the shortlisted candidates happened to be Catholic. The other two times a non-catholic was chosen over Catholic applicants.
For RE I think non-Catholics are much less likely to be shortlisted though.

ohreallyohreallyoh · 17/09/2018 19:29

I am non Catholic and previously worked in a very Catholic school. It was never an issue. I did have to go through the motions with prayers etc every day but you get used to it. Catholic schools want the best teachers for their students and will hire on that basis. You can’t refuse to uphold the ethos,of the school, obviously, but not being religious was never a barrier where I worked.

DumbledoresApprentice · 17/09/2018 19:32

I probably should have said I’m not a Catholic either. It didn’t stop me being hired and has not held me back from promotion in school.

Original poster
Bobbiepin · 17/09/2018 19:49

That sounds fair enough, although I more than meet the job spec I can only assume they had someone else who maybe didn't need to give notice or something. It wasn't an RE position.

@noblegiraffe that's interesting that it relates to firing too. Like if I was Catholic but converted to Islam or Hinduism I could be fired?

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MsJaneAusten · 17/09/2018 21:41

It's legal and normal for religious schools. I recently decided not to apply for an AHT role in a Catholic school because while it stated that non Catholics 'would be considered', it was also made clear on a different part of the school website that the DHT and HT roles could only be filled by Catholics, so I couldn't see much chance of career progression!

Bimgy85 · 17/09/2018 21:42

Well you can hardly go accusing them of discriminating against you if you don't get the job / interview. I'm sure you're not the only one applying.

Original poster
Bobbiepin · 17/09/2018 21:46

@bimgy85 my comment about a complaint was if it wasn't legal, not because I didn't get an interview. I have my big girl pants on and realise that a faith school (especially one that's not my faith) might not be the best place for me. It was a small glimmer of hope to getting out of the shit school I'm in now and I'm slightly disappointed, that's all.

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Original poster
Bobbiepin · 18/09/2018 22:43

So after telling myself that this wasn't the school for me (and doing a rather convincing job of it, may I add) I got an email today asking me to interview on Friday. I was not expecting that.

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FogCutter · 18/09/2018 23:05

It is only lawful for an employer to turn down applicants on the basis of a protected characteristic (religion, sex etc) if there is a genuine occupational requirement (GOR) for having/ not having that characteristic.

Eg you could advertise for a female carer and exclude males if the job involves providing personal care for a lady.

I have seen many Church schools state that being of a particular faith is a GOR for RE teacher and headteacher roles (on the basis that headteacher sets out and provides religious leadership).

A school would struggle to prove there is a GOR for faith in a non RE or non leadership role but at interview candidates would be expected to demonstrate how they would uphold/ promote the religious and spiritual aspects of the school.

Good luck for your interview!

Beesandfrogsandfleas · 18/09/2018 23:10

It shouldn't be legal, but it is standard practice.

noblegiraffe · 18/09/2018 23:20

Good luck with your interview!

TheFallenMadonna · 19/09/2018 00:06

Good luck!

DumbledoresApprentice · 19/09/2018 07:29

Good luck!
There’s a good chance they’ll ask you how you will uphold the Catholic Ethos of the school. Some ideas for that question
-Facilitating daily prayer (some catholic schools start every lesson with a prayer but daily will be the minimum). You don’t need to pray but do need to have a student come up and lead the prayer.
-Supporting the school’s charity fundraising.
-Promoting “Catholic” values, many of which are actually pretty universal e.g. kindness, respect for others, charity, forgiveness...

husbandbloodyhusband · 19/09/2018 20:43

Speaking from very bitter experience, Catholic Archdiocese can be the least Christian organisations to work for.

bananakorma · 19/09/2018 21:16

I've worked in a catholic and a C of E school. I found the C of E more orthodox.

Original poster
Bobbiepin · 19/09/2018 22:53

@dumbledoresapprentice that's really useful thank you. I'm very happy to uphold the values of the school, like you say it's not exclusively Christian and they generally lend themselves to bring a decent moral person.

@husbandbloodyhusband sorry to hear that. Is it like most schools in that they are all money grabbing soul destroying business run exam factories (It's a 6th form college so I'm definitely expecting an exam factory) or something else?

I'm viewing this with an open mind, it might not be the right school for me and that's ok, I've been at my current school for a long time and interview practise won't go to waste.

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cricketballs3 · 20/09/2018 17:00

I work at a Catholic academy and I'm so far from religious my DH said when I got the job I'd be struck down by lightning within a week Grin.
At interview you will be asked about upholding Catholic ethos and I agree with Dumbledore as to how to answer.

At school I'm expected to support morning/afternoon prayer - basically getting one if the students to say a prayer/thought of the day and attend mass (1 each term). It's no more an exam factory than anywhere else given that's how we are judged

Original poster
Bobbiepin · 22/09/2018 06:17

The interview went well, the head told me they would call on Monday but I got a call a few hours later saying they had looked at the timetable and were trying to rework things so I could work part time (they were looking for someone ft). There are lots of details to work out but if that all goes well, I might just have a new job. Thank you all so much for your help!

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Bestseller · 22/09/2018 06:40

I applied for a slt job at a Catholic school once. I was interviewed despite not being Catholic but it was the most uncomfortable experience of my life. The chair of governors was positively frosty, and no attempt at all to put me at ease like you usually get at the start of an interview and no attempt to "sell" the school/job to me. The head was like the worst stereotype of a creepy "Brother" very odd indeed and when I asked the questions they invited their response was as if they were appalled that I had the nerve to ask.

I've always wondered if it was because it was a Catholic school, because they'd felt obliged to interview me but were determined not to appoint me, but I or if they were just a very odd bunch

Fwiw, the head retired early a few months later and they lost more than 50% of the governing body shortly afterwards

sashh · 24/09/2018 09:24

It is only lawful for an employer to turn down applicants on the basis of a protected characteristic (religion, sex etc) if there is a genuine occupational requirement (GOR) for having/ not having that characteristic.

Not true for faith schools, they can insist you are a particular religion, even a particular sect of that religion.

You can also be expected to be 'active' ie for an RC school attend mass every Sunday.

Boobiepin

Congratulations, I hope all goes well.

I went to an RC school, the nonRC staff were a bit of a novelty to us.

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