Advice about teaching

[Kat2341]

Hi, I’m looking for some advice about pursuing a career in teaching.

I think that I would really like to teach English at secondary school level both because it is a subject that interests me and there seems to be more chance of securing employment in my local area. However, my degree is in law and I do not have A Levels in English. So my question is what further education/training could I undertake to qualify for both the relevant teacher training and subsequent job vacancies? Would a masters in English be sufficient? Are there any alternative (less expensive) qualifications that I could do? I work so would be looking to study part time preferably distance learning. If I do decide to retrain as a teacher I’d be looking to do it in about 8/9 years time - when my children are older.

Thanks in advance.

Do you really think you'll be working till you're almost 80

How are you going to do a MA in English without a first degree in it out of interest?

I work in an role related to admissions.

We would look for a minimum of 50% of your degree being in the subject that you wish to teach. Or a good a-level in your subject, a closely related degree and willingness to undergo a subject knowledge enhancement course prior to the course commencing.

Requirements do change over time, so what providers say now mag not be the same in 8 years time.

I'd recommend getting some experience in schools to confirm that it's what you really want to do before commiting to the expense of additional qualifications if you're only doing them for this purpose.

Secondary English teacher here: I have never met an English teacher without an English degree.

I'd totally disagree with this. I've taught English for 20 plus years in a number of secondary schools and have come across numerous (excellent) teachers without degrees in English. In fact, my last HOD (recognised as one of the best in the county) doesnt have a degree in English. Thinking about it, of those who dont have a degree in English, the majority have a law degree.

My degree wasn't in 'pure' English (it was linguistics) but I did do A'Level English Lit as an evening class int eh year between uni and my PGCE.

@Rufus27 I have also been teaching 20 years and never had a colleague without an English degree

rufus : bet they all had A Level or equivalent though!

my last HOD (recognised as one of the best in the county)

Recognised by whom? And do you live in a big county? There might not be much competition to be the best HoD in Rutland, for example.

Large county. She’s a lead HOD (forgotten what the term is) and is respected by other HODs who often come to her for advice. I do agree that those without an Eng degree do have (and need) A Level English . Used to teach in one of the UK’s biggest schools and can honestly say the teachers with non Eng degrees (law, media, history, linguistics and theatre studies) were just as effective as those with a pure Eng degree. Would have been happy for any one of them to have taught my own children. All were obviously deemed to be suitable by their PGCE course admissions team too .

Media, linguistics and theatre studies are all closely enough related to not be a problem, though.

I’m not disputing that they were all good teachers in terms of classroom management, etc - I guess it depends on what depth of subject specialist knowledge you look for in your sixth form courses, I suppose. I have A Level History but have only ever taught it at Year 7. I’d never be arrogant enought to assume that having an A Level in it followed by a completely unrelated degree made me competent to teach it at A Level/IB - I respect my History qualified colleagues and their extraordinary depth of subject knowledge far too much for that!

It’s interesting how English is assumed to be a subject anyone can teach, isn’t it?

I teach history and am HOD. My degree is in History.
I have a teacher in my department who does not have a history degree. His subject knowledge is the best I’ve ever seen and definitely superior to mine.
We also have plenty of specialist English teachers with degrees in Literature that admit to not being that comfortable or confident in teaching English grammar.
People with MFL degrees and people genuinely interested in grammar generally have better knowledge in that area than the average English teacher with a Literature degree IMO.
I think teachers need to be graduates but the subject of their degree is less important than passion for the subject. Some of the best teachers I know teach a subject that was not their original degree subject.
I think the important question for the OP is do you actually have a burning passion to teach English or do you just want to teach? English departments are under huge pressure in schools, their workload is immense even compared to other essay-based subjects like mine. They get much more interference and micro-management from SLT because of accountability measures.
What were your A Level subjects? Might you be happier and less likely to burn out teaching one of those? I wouldn’t pick your subject based on the number of jobs you see alone. There is a recruitment crisis at the minute. Lots of subjects need teachers.

I wouldn’t want my kids taught English by someone who doesn’t have A levels or a degree in the subject.

I have never taught English grammar Dumbledore although I could. I am surprised you think that is a part of English teaching. It really isn't.

Our head of drama has an English degree : but she does have drama in that dgree as Enlgish graduates often do, did drama in her PGCE and, crucially, has drama A Level.

I think OP has said she wants to do English simply becasue she thinks that's where the jobs are : I am not convinced by that motivation.

I do teach a subject at A Level that i do not have A Level in : but that A Level did not exist then. it is very closely allied to English Lit, however, but I accept my Subject Knowledeg will be inferior toa specialist's. it is a subject predominantly taught by non specialists though : unlike English.

Excuse typos btw. 'Fixed' laptop no longer underlines errors!

I’m only going on what my colleagues tell me. They say that there is a lot more grammar in the curriculum now and some have enlisted help from MfL specialists to help plan lessons on grammar. They have whole schemes of work just for SPAG now in my school. Is that not the case in all schools? Apologies if I’ve got this wrong, maybe it’s a school initiative rather than a national one. I know many of them do not enjoy teaching it at all.

I’ve seen some absolutely brilliant teachers teach right up to A Level in subjects that they don’t have a degree in as long as they are passionate about the subject they end up teaching. I don’t agree that an undergraduate degree in your subject is necessary. Having a degree in the subject I teach is useful but doesn’t give me better subject knowledge than my very passionate colleague who did a philosophy degree.

None of that means that this is necessarily the right choice for the OP. I don’t think it’s good to choose your subject based on the number of jobs. But if (and it’s a big if) the OP was able to convince a university to enrol her onto an English MA, successfully complete it and complete an English PGCE then I don’t think she would be unsuitable to teach English.

No dumbledore that's bollocks. No idea what that is all about. If anything the lit has become even more all consuming at GCSE ( and I have definitley observed lessons were woeful subject knowledge has revealed itself fairly rapidly). There is certainly grammar at KS2 and lots of KS2 teachers are bored by it and terrified of it in equal measure.

imo the OP doesn't sound passionate about English...

Dumbledores I agree, there is much more grammar now taught throughout all key stages.

I’d never be arrogant enought to assume that having an A Level in it followed by a completely unrelated degree made me competent to teach it at A Level/IB - I respect my History qualified colleagues and their extraordinary depth of subject knowledge far too much for that!
Had I not have worked with colleagues without pure English degrees, I think I would have agreed with you. But working with them, and seeing their excellent results (both progress and attainment) I know that - with commitment and professionalism - alternative degree subjects are not necessarily a barrier. I can say with absolute honesty that if my children were doing A'Level English at our school, the teacher I'd most want to teach them is the one with the law degree.
The university tutors obviously agreed she could do an English PGCE so I dont think it's a case of arrogance on her part. If she wasnt good enough, she wouldn't have got on the (over-subscribed) course in the first place, surely.

Weirdly, my strength is linguistics/grammar and my weakest area in terms of subject knowledge is literature - yet somehow, I always seem to teach lit better. I think it's because I am less confident and therefore prepare more thoroughly.

I have never taught English grammar Dumbledore although I could. I am surprised you think that is a part of English teaching. It really isn't.
But how on earth do you cover the depth of language analysis required for a grade 9 in the English Language spec without teaching grammar? How can students comment on sentence structure, word choices etc without an understanding of grammar?

I don't see that as grammar : not in the way an MFL teacher would (eg fronted adverbials etc). I am not usually privileged enough to teach grade 9s. But teaching word order and sentence construction via a stimulus text is basic literay analysis for an English grad. The stuff I had to 'learn'as a teacher was acytually more of the poetic metre stuff, tbh, as my dgree didn't really focus on the fancy terms.

I always taught stuff like adjective, plosive, modal verb : that's not new for me! You can't teach literature without those analytical skills. I ahve seen grade 9 responses that comment on langauge without using any particaulalry challenging grammatical lexicon.

Grammar is a very specific word to me...

But the reason we are having this debate rufus is because we are specialists!

It’s fascinating what different views we all have if what makes a good teacher, and what we actually teach!

I guess the term ‘grammar’ is subjective to some extent. One of the reasons I said that it’s a key component of the new spec is that the exam board sent us loads of grammar schemes of work and, as a result of examiner feedback, we’ve introduced more explicit grammar teaching.

Can’t claim to be experienced with teaching grade 9 students as I have become an SEN specialist in recent years focusing mainly on grades 1-4 (for me, a real privilege). Ironically, the teacher who got the most grade 9s last summer was our law specialist!

Agree with you Jane. Nice to have a debate on here without it becoming a bitch fest! Whatever our views, I love the passion that English teachers seem to have in abundance!

rufus what exam board is that?

Yes, where do I get all this grammar stuff? Which exam board had it?

Edexcel/Pearson produced the Grammar for Writing units supported by University of Exeter, I think?We also have materials we have pinched from other schools who do the Welsh board I believe. I’m intrigued to know why places like TES and Teachit English have so many grammar resources, and SPaG explicitly refers to ‘grammar’ in its title, if there is no need to teach grammar?

Reading back my previous posts, I am aware that I come across as a results obsessed hoop jumper who measures a teacher’s success purely on a scale of 1-9. Couldn’t be further from the truth! It was just the only way I could show that our non specialists (who do have Eng PGCEs, just not English degrees) do have the subject knowledge to get students through exams. I hate the current obsession with teaching to pass an exam and this was one of the main reasons I have recently resigned from my mainstream English post. Only been back at work a few weeks after parental leave and have two under 25 months, so speaking with any degree of clarity or eloquence is too much of a challenge at present

I started teaching at 45; did a GTP in a state academy. Stayed for 8 years then moved to a big, independent non selective school. My career progression has been rapid in the 18 months I have been there. In a boarding school there are more opportunities: pastoral and academic roles. It is very busy and working Saturday until 1430 is a challenge. There are also many benefits with better pay, more career prospects, much smaller classes and very long holidays. Make sure you go into a school to just get a feel for the environment first.
I taught English for 18 months in my previous school and really enjoyed it.