Secondary teacher or primary teacher?

[LeahJack]

I’m trying to decide which of these to go for in my PGCE. I like the idea of teaching teenagers in a subject I’m interested in, but worry there won’t be many of that specific job.

Workload is a big consideration, does anybody have any thoughts on which might be the most time intensive outside school hours?

Thanks

If you're serious about teaching you need to take workload out of your decision making. It's heavy, whichever phase you work in.

Which area do you have most experience in?

What would be your chosen secondary subject?

A union survey recently reported that on average a secondary teacher works 55 hours a week and a primary school teacher 60 hours a week.

At secondary some subject will have a higher marking load than others. It will also vary between schools.

I would look at getting some experience to help you decide. I did volunteer work with different ages and that really helped me decide that I wanted to go for 3 - 8 years. It really is so personal. I ended up in a special school as once I had experienced that I knew it was what I wanted to do.

I have close family who are in primary and secondary and they both have big workloads. The primary teacher stays at school to work and the secondary teacher leaves ‘on time’ but works late in the evenings. They both work over the weekend and in holidays. Different ages have different types of workload

I agree with teaandbscuits : teaching is a vocation. I never had any doubts that I wanted to do secondary. Sometimes, over along career, I have questioned this, but rarely. Get into a range of schools and find out!

They are almost like totally different jobs but if workload is offputting to you, teaching is the wrong job, whichever phase. It is not like one magically doesn't have any workload!!

I replied to this but for some reason it didn’t post so will reply again.

I’m aware workload is heavy for all teaching jobs, but wanted to get some comparison between the two, because 5 hours difference is a huge amount.

I have experience working with younger children, despite that, my feeling is that secondary is probably the best way to go as I would be looking at history teaching which I have a huge personal passion for and I prefer the idea of being able to communicate that to older children who can understand it on a less superficial level to small ones. Plus it would concentrate on that subject alone.

The only thing that worries me is job availability, as I can’t drive (yet) and would be restricted in area.

I was a secondary school teacher. I know work as a TA teaching in an infant school.

I don't teach in the same way and I can, on paper anyway, leave some of the extra stuff as a boys though rand skirt is I can't and don't.

But from my experience and I serving colleagues over the years: They both have tons of work load just in different ways. Likewise they have different, but equal, pressures.

I prefer teaching infants.

I left secondary due to behaviour of pupils and lack of support in dealing with that, by smt. I'd never go back to secondary.

I've done both. The workload in primary is vastly bigger than the workload in secondary. I taught English, which is acknowledged as having the biggest marking load. I'd say I work around 10 hours more per week now, in primary.
However, I enjoy the classroom environment much more, and I love teaching all subjects instead of just one.
They are very different jobs!
Good luck, whatever you decide.

Think I read somewhere... primary if you love children, secondary if you love your subject. Makes sense to me.

Primary always comes out with a higher workload. I think secondary is more variable throughout the year (busy periods with exams, course work marking etc but then some quieter periods). Primary marking is full on all year (at least maths and English books to mark every day).

But as I said in my first post, don't go into it based on workload. Teachers are leaving in droves and workload is the main reason. Go for it if you want to teach but if the workload is a concern already, I'd seriously question whether it's worth putting yourself through it because it's tough. I'm not trying to be patronising, just trying to explain the reality.

You really must do some work experience. In both age groups and different types of school.
A lot of secondaries are more like crowd control rather than teaching.
Go to an RI school. You need to see the reality

There is also FE as an alternative where you could teach just A level History. There probably isn't the highest demand but it could be another route to look into. You will need to look into driving asap really as PGCE for secondary IME place you pretty much anywhere in a fairly large catchment so you would need to be able to get out to placement schools. I assume from your post you are already learning though so good luck

It all depends pn how one emasures workload really : if it is just hours worked, surveys suggest primary ahs the most but I bet there are even huge variations there. The secondary 'average' is almost impossible to work out as English teachers have (a Teacher tap survey showed) the highest workload of any teachers in any sector. The workload figures are averaged out by some subjects having significantly fewer worked hours.

But it is not a competition : there are hours worked, there is behaviour , there is intensity of demands coming from all angles that makes teaching a challenging profession, whatever the age group. And the marking. Which has become crazy but is hopefully beginning to see a reverse in a few 'trends'

FWIW the history teachers in my school seem quite happy : but please be aware that a) it is a non shortage subject and b) history teachers often end up teaching other humanities subjects :politics, RS, geography, business, economics, classics and sometimes English!

Jobs vary by area so look on the TES website and see how many primary jobs are advertised near you versus history jobs. Jobs ads also fluctuate throughout the year so do it more than once (and not all jobs are advertised on the TES as it’s expensive, but it will give you an idea).

You need to like children to teach secondary too, you spend a lot of time with them!

teaandbiscuits, it’s not that workload is a primary concern. However, I have been reading a lot about it, particularly on here, and because I knew workload was a big factor in the attrition rate it was definitely something I wanted to take into account when choosing.

I know it won't be a primary concern but what we're all trying to tell you is it shouldn't be a factor in primary or secondary. Yes it's a concern when deciding whether to go into teaching or not but not if you're trying to decide which age range.

I think most people would rather work 60 hours in the key stage / subject they love than 55 hours in an area that they're not 100% about. The difference in workload doesn't matter as much as doing the job you love.

As people have suggested, get as much experience in every area that you can and then you've got a much better base to make your decision on. Try outstanding schools and requires improvement schools and shadow teachers for a week to get a real insight into workload.

Remember the average hours worked stats are just that - averages. The hours worked regardless of key stage will vary massively according to how long you've been teaching, additional responsibilities and subject. I'm a secondary school maths teacher with no additional responsibilities abd have been teaching 15 years. Trying not to blow my own Im a very good teacher have never had any complaints (to my knowledge) re: any aspect of my teaching yet I rarely never work longer than 40 hours a week. What made a significant reduction to my workload was dropping my TLR. Previously being a HOD I reckon I was often working double that.

I've worked in both sectors.

Primary - kids are much nicer to you, parents MUCH fussier/ more painful, workload heavier and more has to be done at work.

Secondary - kids much harder to 'win' but more rewarding when you get there, tricky parents usually kept away from standard teachers, usually more interesting (and dare I say it, cleverer?) colleagues, workload dependent on subject but unless you are PE lots can be taken home.

Workload can also vary depending on the school you're in. Some schools seem dedicated to reducing teacher workload, others just add more and more paperwork. Teachers work hard regardless of primary or secondary, just in different ways.

You say in your OP you like the idea of teaching teenagers in history but don't mention what you'd like about primary. Sounds to me like you should go for secondary. Just having more primary jobs in your area is not a reason to go into primary teaching. Usually people are drawn to one or the other, sounds like you're drawn to secondary.

If you were in primary, the headteacher can put you wherever they like. How would you feel teaching a Year 1 class all day every day?

Behaviour can be very challenging in primary as well as secondary, particularly if you have a large number of children in your class with special educational needs, emotional difficulties, history of abuse/ neglect/ domestic violence/ parents with addiction or mental health difficulties. Teaching very needy children with many different issues and being reslonsible for their wellbeing is emotionally draining. Often in deprived areas this can be a big issue.

Sometimes people assume that managing behaviour is always easier in primary but it can be just as hard, but different.

keiratwicenightly I totally disagree that primary children are nicer to you and that secondary teachers are more intelligent than primary

I am a History Teacher and I love my job. I've done it for almost 30 years. I am passionate about my subject and I love my kids. I mostly teach Y9 - 13 so workload is heavy.

I probably work 60 hour weeks most weeks. I am now dealing with A level classes with almost 30 students in - no AS this year means I'm just about to mark almost 50 Y12 internal A level papers, as well as 60 Y10 GCSE papers. I'm also supposed to be writing reports on Y7,8,9 and 12. And almost 50 UCAS subject references - as well as the 23 Tutor References I need to do. I am currently completely brain dead after having 2 Y11 classes and 2 Y13 classes who since Easter have been either hysterical, argumentative, stressed, weepy and utterly needy. I like them very much - but I'm so knackered now. I also had to mark 43 pieces of Y13 Coursework.

Just about to run a Battlefield Trip to the Somme next week, which is great - but 24 hour responsibility for 58 Y9s is not relaxing.

The first person to tell me I was a cunt to my face was an 11 year old girl. (Many years ago). The first person to throw a chair across the room at me screaming, 'Fuck off bitch' was a 6ft 3, 15 stone boy. I've had pupils tell me 'I'm gonna get you done - I'll just say you assaulted me' - and I've had 12 yos tell me they were pregnant. I love teaching teenagers a subject I am interested in - but just be aware that it will not always be a subject they are interested in. (However exciting your lesson is).

Best advice is to see if you can do a bit of experience in both situations - and yes, try a school that is challenging.

Be aware that it’s fairly normal (although not inevitable) for secondary humanities teachers to be expected to teach all of the humanities at KS3. It sounds like history is your passion but you might have to fake some enthusiasm for oxbow lakes, too

Does secondary pay more?

Nope.
Pay is the same, on standard scales.

Struggs, ooh, I like a nice Oxbow lake! In all honesty I would be happy teaching things like politics and economics and geography too. I’m passionate about history but I am interested in all of them, and of course all of them feed into history anyway.