Taking pupils out for interventions... do you ask the teacher if it's ok?

[LucasNorthsTwiglets]

I'm a TA and several times a day I have to take my 1:1 out of the room for interventions. The time I need to take him out is usually in the middle of a lesson so I feel like I need to ask my teacher if it's ok to take him out (in case she wants him to finish what the class are doing first). But whenever I ask my teacher, she seems offish with me - making comments like "I can't be expected to remember what your timetable is" or "I can't talk to you now, I'm in the middle of teaching..."! But it just seems rude to walk out of the class! I asked what she'd prefer me to do and she said "give me a qjuick signal and I'll let you know if it's a good time or not" - but I can never make eye contact! There is very much an atmosphere of "I'm busy, don't interrupt me" and I feel like I'm walking on eggshells.

What do you guys do? TAs, do you just leave the class without checking with the teacher? And teachers, do you like your TAs to ask you?

I've been both! I think it's best to briefly remind her at the start that you'll be taking Freddie out halfway through and say no more.

At the time just get on with it with minimal distraction.

I think that if she is actually being a bit off it will be that your fussing about how to tell her and announce it, is possibly causing much more irritation than the fact he has to leave.

Just go no fuss

I'm a teacher with a 1:1 TA in my class. I trust her completely and don't expect her to tell me. She briefs me in the morning if they're are any changes to her daily routine and that's it! In the afternoon my class TA takes kids out for interventions and I don't expect to be told. I normally see the door open anyway when she comes in to get them. I have a list on my desk and if for whatever reason I need a child and can't find them I can cross check my list and know they are in their intervention.

Interventions are important and personally, I don't hold children back. They go and I catch them up after.

Speak to her again and say that you'll be taking him at x time, giving her a timetable. Say that you'll be as unobtrusive as possible and that if she has concerns to speak to you afterwards.
Don't tread on eggshells around her, but don't be loud and dramatic (not suggesting you are but some people can be).

Are the interventions taking place at the same time each week? If so, I would give her a copy of the timetable so she knows what's going on, and then just take the child when you need to go. It's a shame they are all in the middle of lessons though as that means missing out on QF teaching. Ours tend to be at the ends of lessons, during assemblies, during afternoons etc more now.

We have a timetable 10 minutes for Fred at 1.00, 10 minutes for Anne at 1.10. The teachers know and so I will just pop my head round and pull them out

Its this part of the job that made me have a panic attack at 1 am on Saturday morning and question whether I should be handing in my notice. It seems overwhelming

I agree with Appuskidu though that during lessons isn't great for interventions. I don't like my DD taken out during these times although expect her to miss register, plenaries, spelling tests, independent reading and assembly. I would hope for her to be supported in class during lessons.

Thanks, all. It's awkward that I start at 9.30am, so there's no chance to talk to the teacher before lessons. FrogsLegs, I'm definitely not fussing! It was so easy with my last teacher - I'd just give her a quick 'is now ok?' signal and she'd give me a thumbs up or signal for 'hang on a minute'... this teacher seems to want nothing whatsoever to do with me! I asked about how she likes her pupil feedback done (eg. written on the plan, a note at the end of the day etc.) and she said "oh, I won't have time to talk to you about feedback...". It's just really odd.

Sadly though I wouldn't get through my daily list if I was only allowed to take them out during the times mentioned above as assembly is half an hour twice a week at most (time used to change reading books). Two hours of interventions every afternoon (so they will miss reading sometimes). To include 45 minutes of assessment / planning time at end of week during golden time. It's such a lot to do there is no extra time to do it in addition to planned lessons.

I had no idea how much was crammed into a day until I started working in a school. No wonder my children always came home shattered!

She absolutely must make time for feedback with you. This was one of the core recommendations in the report into the low efficacy of TAs a few years ago. I would have a quiet word with her senior manager and ask if the manager could find a way to subtly make how to work with a TA a focus of her appraisal this year.

Sounds to me like the teacher knows you have your job to do on intervention and is happy to let you get on with it and hasn't got time for teaching being interrupted, making up signals (whilst trying to remember is it charlotte or jamie who she wants at this time).

Having been a TA and now a teacher, you do come across as a bit fussy, which might be why the teacher is a bit 'get on with it'

Print out your timetable for the week. Highlight her children and their slots, give it to her the week before and say 'here are the slots. Shall I just collect the children for their allocated slot?'

Write a couple of notes on the plan and hand it to her at the end of the day. Keep a photocopy for your own records.

I would have a quiet word with her senior manager and ask if the manager could find a way to subtly make how to work with a TA a focus of her appraisal this year
I wouldn't! And I would be pissed off if someone with no line management link to me thought it would be appropriate to go and suggest performance management targets for me.

TAs can get feedback in all sorts of ways, not just meeting with the teacher every day.

Some notes on the plan would be fine and the teacher can do with it what she likes. She can give direction on topics/skills the child needs. She might only want to have a sit down meeting every half term to debrief and set up for next half term.

With the best will in the world, nobody suddenly goes from not being able to do something to being able to do it confidentlyy, independently and apply it to new situations in one intervention session.

(I say this having done intervention)

Half termly feedback meetings is really not enough for sen intervention. I wouldn't expect daily but I would expect my teachers to manage a weekly meeting. If I found out a teacher was being obstructive to weekly meetings I would be very unhappy and would have a word with management, though I appreciate that might be awkward for a TA.

Having been a TA and now a teacher, you do come across as a bit fussy, which might be why the teacher is a bit 'get on with it'

Maybe I'm writing it wrongly but I am honestly not fussing. I've been a TA for years, I always just go and get on with stuff! However, because this was a new teacher, I wanted to ask how she likes to run her class - that's only polite, it's not fussing! I didn't get into a long conversation, I just quickly said "how do you want me to take so-and-so out - would you like me to just take them or to check with you first?" and I got snapped at. I think I'd be pissed off if a TA just walked out of my class with a pupil and I hadn't ok'd it beforehand...

That's a great idea about handing her a copy of my timetable - I'll definitely do that.

Write a couple of notes on the plan and hand it to her at the end of the day.

Yeah, this is what I've always done in the past. But as it's a new teacher, again, I thought it polite to ask "is this how you want me to fedback to you?" and she basically said she didn't want feedback I think I will just carry on writing notes on my planning sheets and then if she does decide she wants it she can just ask me.

Thanks for your advice!

You might not feel this is fussy, previous teachers you have worked with may not have seen this as fussy... but you wanted to check how this new teacher likes things done and you are ignoring her response because it doesn't fit with you.

She is saying loud and clear that to her this is fussy and irritating. Follow her lead.

(Ex TA now teacher who is really happy for her TAs to be independent and do whatever they need to do without permission from me!)

It is daft really isn't it, taking children out of a lesson.

Not your fault OP, just thinking out loud.

Ex TA now teacher who is really happy for her TAs to be independent and do whatever they need to do without permission from me!
I'm the same. They are professionals in their own right.
When I gain a TA one of the first things I establish early on is that thry have the authority to challenge behaviour, adapt the task within reason etc as suits their child.

opheliacat I agree. I would question the logic of pulling a child for intervention so they miss out on teaching input.
Surely it would be better placed over time when the child isn't going yo miss out.

It's the start of the year. You're trying to work out what she wants from you and you're getting snappy responses from her that still don't actually tell you what she wants you to do. I think she's out of line. It would have taken her seconds to smile and say "Just take Timmy when it's time. No need to ask me in future, just go when you're ready. I prefer not to be interrupted." In terms of feedback how hard would it have been to say "brief notes would be great, we might not get time to go over it every day though"?

I work in secondary not primary but I must say I really think less of teachers who speak to TAs like they are a nuisance. The OP is just trying to do her job. Making your colleagues walk on eggshells all day creates a huge amount of workplace stress. The teacher sounds like she isn't coping very well if she can't summon up basic courtesy when speaking to a colleague. I wouldn't expect SLT to speak to me in this way and wouldn't dream of speaking to a TA or member of my department like this.