Becoming a teacher in the UK

[CanIHaveChocolatePlease]

Hi there,

I'm don't know if this is the right part of Mumsnet to post it but I feel ye're probably the right people to advise me on this but here goes (and sorry about the length and detail of it and I know that ye'll all probably be advising me against going into teaching at the moment !);

I am Irish and have lived in Ireland all my life and have always gone to school here (have been in normal state schools so have done the Junior Certificate and will be doing the Leaving Certificate- which is the usual end of school exams here- in June 2018). In school I am currently doing English, maths, Irish, French, biology, home economic and geography.

However,for various reasons, for a while now I've been hoping to live in some part of the UK, preferably England in the future, ideally from university onwards (hopefully I'll be starting university in September 2018) so that's where my questions come in.

I am thinking of either being a teacher (most likely primary,but if I was to do secondary it would probably be home economics, biology, childcare or geography that I'd want to teach) or else maybe working with children in a preschool/childcare setting.

So I'm wondering the following about studying and qualifying in these areas;

If I wanted to train to be a primary teacher/childcare worker in England, what is the easiest way to do it straight after school, how long would it take and how much would it cost?

If I wanted to train to be a primary teacher/childcare worker in Northern Ireland, what is the easiest way to do it straight after school, would I have to teach/study Irish, how long would it take and how much would it cost?

If I wanted to train to be a primary teacher/childcare worker in Scotland, what is the easiest way to do it straight after school, would I have to teach/study Gaelic, how long would it take and how much would it cost?

If I wanted to train to be a primary teacher/childcare worker in Wales, what is the easiest way to do it straight after school, would I have to teach/study Welsh, how long would it take and how much would it cost?

If I trained in one country of the United Kingdom
and then wanted to work in another country in the United Kingdom, could I go straight into work and if not how long would it take to retrain and how much would it cost?

If I ended up having to train as a teacher/ childcare worker in the Republic of Ireland and still wanted to then move to and work in the UK, would I be able to go straight into a job or would I have to retrain and requalify and if so how long would that take and how much would it cost?

So what I'm basically wondering is what is the easiest way to become a teacher or childcare worker in the UK straight after finishing school and that if I train in one part of the United Kingdom or Ireland and want to work in another part of the UK, will I be able to go straight into a job without extra training and if not what's the quickest and easiest way to retrain?

Sorry for this lengthy message but I'm heading into my last year of school next week and need to start sorting out what I might do after school next year and what's the quickest, easiest and most cost effective way of training after school that will easily allow me to live and work between Ireland and the various parts of the UK. I am able to get a British passport if that would make anything easier for me.

Sorry again for the lengthy message and I look forward to hearing from ye with yer advice. I did read stuff on how to become a teacher in the UK but I was finding it confusing, especially for someone who's looking to do teaching straight after school.

Thanks in advance!

Quick google

I'm in England. England and Wales are certainly transferable. Scotland's education system is different in quite a few ways, but I suspect QTS would transfer (?? I'm only guessing that bit). Sorry, I don't know about NI.
Traditionally you would need to do a degree and then a PGCE (Post Graduate Certificate of Education). The degree would need to be in a subject you wanted to teach if secondary, or a fairly 'traditional' subject if Primary. Degree would normally be 3 years then PGCE a further year.
You can, alternatively do courses that have gradually replaced the B.Ed - so something like 'Primary and Outdoor Education' or 'Primary Teaching and English' type courses.
Over the last 10 - 15 years there have been a myriad of schemes to entice people in to teaching - you'd have to look at link to see which of these are still current, but a lot (eg Teach First) want people who have already got a very good degree.
The 'one the job' training schemes certainly used to go to TAs who were already working in the school that the school knew and were willing to support through, as they are very intensive on support time.

Thanks for that BackforGood

So the courses like 'Primary and outdoor education' would include the qualified teachers status in the 3 years?

In Ireland it's a lot more straightforward, especially for primary-you just do primary education for 4 years in college and then you're qualified and ready to teach, but I don't really want to teach or live in Ireland in future so trying to avoid training here if possible 😳

(Voice of doom....)

It might all change after Brexit

You can do a BA (hons) Primary teaching. It takes 3 years, costs £9250 a year and you will gain QTS which is what you need to be able to teach in England and Wales. You would then be able to get a job in England or Wales. As far as I am aware, this would not qualify you to teach in Scotland.

This one at Worcester requires a PGCE to get QTS (Qualified Teacher status)

Whereas This B.Ed at Derby gives you QTS as part of the course.

The Derby page answers quite a lot of your questions about other routes.

BEd Primary teaching takes 4 years in Scotland. I live in Scotland so had no tuition fees (thanks SNP!) but I think there are fees if you're coming from another country. You don't have to learn or teach Gaelic, although this is an option (I didn't take).

There are far too many teachers in NI and people struggle to get jobs after qualifying. It can be difficult to get on a teacher training course in NI and even if you manage to do so a lot of people end up doing supply teaching afterwards or moving to England for a while to try and get work.
There are a number of regions in England that struggle to get teachers, especially in maths and science for secondary schools. As far as I know London and the South East have the biggest teacher shortages. Most secondary teachers I know did a 3 year degree (in a shortage subject ideally) and then a 1 year PGCE to qualify and get QTS. Hope this helps and good luck!

Thanks for all these answers!

The traditional route is degree/PGCE or BEd (now BA with QTS, I think) but there are other scitt/training whilst 'in the role' routes, though you'll obviously still need a degree.

I'm in the South East and there are loads and loads of Irish teachers here working in our local secondary schools-I presume there aren't many jobs back home?! That's definitely something to look into.

Appuskidu , I'm not sure if it's a case that there aren't jobs here in Ireland (although I think it can be hard to get a permanent job) , it's just more that I'd like to live in the UK for various other reasons as well

Do you have any family in England you could stay with and maybe do a bit of work experience in a local school? School is very very different here for a variety of reasons. I found it very hard to begin with because I didn't know what to expect, although I'm grand 11 years later!
I think it's best that you know what you are getting yourself in for. There's a reason Ireland and England have completely opposite teacher crises after all...
(Ps. Not trying to be negative, love it here now. But knowledge is power and all that.)

Pangur I'm guessing you're Irish yourself? I do have family in England but I've never met them and I'm not sure if they know I exist! so I couldn't really stay with them, and I'd love to go over myself for a few days to gain experience but I don't see my parents allowing me to do that-they don't want me going to England as they only see the negative aspects of life there, they don't seem to want to listen to the reasons I'd have for wanting to move over there

What are the reasons if you don't mind me asking?

I suppose there's a few things- I'd like a fresh start somewhere new, I don't want to have to teach Irish or a lot of religion, if I was to have kids I'd prefer the range of schools and their different features available, the climate would suit me, there would be lots of largish towns that I could pick to live in, there seems to be more shops and facilities than here and I prefer having the more seriousness and formal rules and stuff rather than everything being so casual like it often is here to name a few

Agree about the religion stuff, although it is great to see more Educate Together schools opening. They don't even have uniforms! Wow. The Irish thing is one of the reasons I moved too; I was crap at it so that would rule out a lot of jobs.

Being a teacher is respected in Ireland in a way that it isn't in England though, which is reflected in the behaviour of both parents and students. I found that culture shock a bit hard to begin with and it still annoys me a bit 11 years later.

I think the teaching standards and facilities are way better over here but I feel it is all cancelled out by the behaviour to be honest. The paper work is also really draining. It's never boring though. The way my particular subject is taught in Ireland is mind numbingly boring, so I've decided that is more important to me and worth the extra stress/ annoyance.

The climate is almost exactly the same though, haha! Don't get your hopes up there!

Ya I'm kind of the same as you then

But I don't mind the rain so that doesn't bother me too much-I hate the heat so definitely wouldn't want to move somewhere with a hot climate

I wonder where your views of the UK education system have come from? I am Irish, moved back last year with my 2 kids, trained as teacher in UK.

The 'more seriousness and formal and stuff' is the reason why 1/3 qualified teachers leave in the first 5 years. It is a life consuming job in the UK and I say that with the hindsight of 10 years experience. With the greatest of respect, I think you'd need some experience of the UK teaching system to be able to compare properly. I wouldn't rule out doing your training in Ireland and moving over if that is still your wish. English schools come over to mass recruit our newly qualified teachers.

I'm now teaching at home, relearning my long dead Irish. The main things I've noticed are - in Ireland there is a more uniform quality to school provision, all teachers are qualified teachers (not guaranteed in the UK) , shorter hours, less paperwork. No academy or free school nonsense.Teachers are definitely held in higher regard. Downside - fewer resources,facilities, poorer buildings. Teachers have a far higher quality of work life balance.

If you are following friends or a boyfriend over to the UK, well then that's different. Can totally relate to wanting to have the experience if living in a different country.

Also - study in the UK, you'll pay UK fees which are not insignificant. And Brexit

Apologies if that sounded really patronising. I can totally relate to wanting to flee small town Ireland . But I'd weigh up if it was worth getting my free (kinda) fees paid by the state for the same qualification rather than taking on a shed load of debt at an English uni.

user my parent said would have to pay about €12,000 in accomodation and fees each year-the state wouldn't be paying for it And there's no boyfriend at the moment

Your fees are (technically) subsidised by the state. I say technically cos obviously there is the €3000 contribution. But yea it is a lot.

Would you qualify for a student loan if you went to the Uk? Cos £36k just on fees is a huge amount upfront. If you go to a big U.K. City you'll still be paying big rents (halls aren't cheap). The regional smaller cities have lower rents so cheaper than Dublin, Cork etc.

I agree with user. It'd probably be cheaper to do your degree and/or training in Ireland and then move over. Also totally agree re paperwork. I'd have moved back ages ago, but I don't feel art is taught very well in Ireland (sorry) and I ended up buying and house, getting married etc. Eying up a move to Scotland though. I think their system is sort of halfway between Ireland and England/Wales'. (If there are any Scottish art teachers on here let me know and I'll start a new thread!)

Oh totally agree Pangur. I'm lucky I'm primary trained

Unfortunately my parents are tonight insisting that I can't go to college in the U.K. for various reasons so it looks like I'll have to train here in Ireland (like ye've suggested) and then move to the uk and work there when I'm done so I'll bear all of yer suggestions in mind

Your parents are probably right tbh; why be crippled with 9 grand a year debt when you don't have to be?