Becoming a primary school teacher? Advice please!

[NancyFrank]

I am thinking of applying to do primary education at university and looking for others experiences of both the university course and the job itself.
I'm currently a nursery nurse so do work with children, I work around 10 hours a day with no break so am used to long days but wondering on average (if you are a teacher) what time you get into work and what time you leave? I'm well aware it is not 9-3.30! How bad is the amount of paper work? I'm attending an open day at the university but anyones experiences/advice regarding the course would be great too!

Get in at 7.30. Some days stay till 6 some days not. About 10 hours a week at home. One week in school each holiday. I'm fairly ruthless about work life though and just ignore stuff if at all possible unless it's actually for the benefit of the children.
Paperwork is horrific but if you are naturally hyper organised it's manageable. The children are lovely and I probably laugh a big belly laugh more often than in most jobs. I also cry in the toilets a lot too....
It all depends on your school - good head and you have a life. Some places you don't.

I saw some vlogs on Youtube by school teachers, although they are American it gives you an insight into when they do certain things and what goes on in their day :) I'll try to remember to leave links when i get a minute to find the channel

That's great thank you both
Sure what year group do you teach if you don't mind me asking?

Schools do vary, but if you are used to working 10 hours a day in childcare, then you will be fine. IME, people who move from Childcare into schools, just love the holidays, and don't find the workload unmanageable.

Backforgood that's good to hear, we work through all the holidays and honestly the pay is a joke but I love the children! I'm definitely not thinking teaching will be an easier option but think it will have different positives

8.30 - 5.30 in school, 2 - 3 hours a night usually. But I work part time, so that's only Tuesday - Thursday and Sunday or Monday evening.

Too much, frankly.

And I haven't worked very much this holiday because I was dangerously close to an 'edge' MH wise, but usually work big chunks of the holidays.

OP - I've been a teacher and nursery nurse. If you've handled the latter then you'll definitely cope with being a teacher. The holidays are a great opportunity to catch up AND relax.

Have several friends who are still primary school teachers and they're not regularly in school until 6 - and that includes those who are SLT. Nor do they put in the hours at home that MN teachers claim.

Enjoy your pay rise 😃

pfrench what sort of work would you do in the holidays?

Clay I'm a teacher, this summer holiday I'll have done about ten days full work, plus a few nights in front of the telly sorting out silly things like labels on folders etc. Also usually in a half term week off I'd work about 1.5 -2 days.
Most time is spent writing long term plans, mid term plans and things that need to be put in place across the school or with other colleagues.

Why not re use plans from previous years? TAs do labelling folders?

Clay Budget cuts mean next year we're losing 9TAs in my school, we'lloyd barely have enough to get by. I have more important things for them to do than label folders. They are only paid until 4.20pm so can get very little done at the end of the day (especially in a school with lots of 'behaviours', a TA can spend an hour writing up all the behaviour records, updating daily targets etc ready for the next day) they aren't paid over the holidays so can't ask them to get things done ready for September.
I am teaching a 3 year rolling scheme of work so I am creating it as I go. In theory after 3 years I'll have previous plans to go back to but by then the school or government will decide to change things and I'll be back to square one again.

Pugg Yes there are teachers that get by doing far fewer hours work. In my experience they are teachers that have become established in their school and have years of resources and are building on what they have done in the past OR have the good fortune to work in a well ran, effective school .

However, I don't know of many new colleagues to the profession that achieve a healthy work life balance, I can count them on one hand. At the start it can be rough.

Also, if like me, you have gone into a school to turn around an inadequate core subject department then that takes a lot.

This isn't me whinging, it's just the reality for many teachers. I bloody love my job and fight hard to do an outstanding job for my pupils whilst being an attentive mum at home.

It's true of any profession, Panic - the beginning is often tough. I wish that weren't the case but it is. I don't want the OP to be put off. The Early Years sector is often tough; poorly paid, low status and some real arseholes in charge. I don't want OP being put off by the we-work-so-hard-and-are-so-stressed teaching brigade on MN.

I quit after a near breakdown. It's very hard to balance teaching with parenthood, and to do a good job at either. I was working 7.30-6, rushing back to grab my kids from nursery (last ones there, usually ) then working again from 9.00, also having to get everything ready for the next day; dishes, laundry, etc etc as well. Didn't go to bed til gone midnight then had to be up to do it all again in the morning.

I guess it would have helped if I'd had a more supportive and helpful dp, though!

I haven't ruled out returning in the future, though, as it is a job you do out of love for working with children and despite the lows, the highs are very high.

I don't think it's just "MN"teachers who work hard and struggle with it, by the way....

Why not re use plans from previous years? TAs do labelling folders?

because plans need to be specific to the class you have in front of you and the specification you are covering this year.

No, TAs don't label folders

arrive at school between 6.30 and 7, normally leave around 5.30, work at home around 10-15 hours a week in term time, sometimes more, also about 10-15 hours a week in school holidays

I'm a Y6 teacher, deputy head and lead a couple of subjects in an improving school and I'd say go for it. I love my job nearly all of the time and agree with much of what's already been said.

If you're used to 10 hour days with limited breaks, you should be able to achieve most of what you need to do in that time. I've always worked from 7:30 to half 5/6 ish initially because I didn't drive and that matched bus times. Once I started driving, I continued with those hours because it means I very, very rarely do anything in the evenings or at weekends. Working those hours and keeping school work at school means I have as very distinct home/work split and find it easy to say I've done enough. Don't think you can ever say you've finished because we can always find something else to do/improve/amend etc but I do accept 'good enough'.

I am very ruthless with my time - when I'm marking, I mark; when I'm planning, I plan; when I'm tidying etc. I don't get caught up in that being in school presentism that some teachers fall into nor do I spend hours working on the internet looking for the perfect picture or resource. Again - I accept 'good enough'

I love the holidays! I usually go in 7 til 2 on one or two days for each week of the shorter holidays (with plans to meet friends for lunch so I have a definite finish time) and probably similar in the summer holiday but split between 1st and 5th week of holiday. That's plenty of time to do all the things I have to do plus the things that aren't necessary and don't improve the children's learning directly but which make me happier in 'my' classroom.

As I say, I love my job. I have great colleagues which helps but the day to day working with the kids is fab. I'm never bored, time flies past and I'm emotionally, creatively and intellectually satisfied. What more could I say?
Still intend to enjoy several lazy days in the last fortnight of the hols though

The amount of work you do really does depend on the type of school you work in. I've worked in very organised, well run schools where planning was reused (but adapted to suit current classes) and I've worked in badly organised, badly run schools where new ways of planning long term were introduced far too often so it was almost impossible to reuse anything. In the former I would have gone in at 8 and left between 4-5 and worked for and hour or two occasionally on an evening and at the weekend. Maybe would have spent a half day in school during holidays to set up classroom/ labels etc. In the latter I would have done 7.30 to 6 in school on my work days (worked part time), worked every evening, a half day during the week and a half day at the weekend. And at least one day every holiday.

I would recommend, once trained, searching for a job in a larger school where it is more likely team planning takes place. Try and find out how planning works and how long staff meetings go on for etc. (2.5 hour meetings every week in one school, which ate massively into the amount of time I had on that day in school to actually get anything else done and added to e the amount of work I had to do at home. In other schools I experienced 1 hour meetings. Far more reasonable.)

Thank you all so much for your replies it is genuinely really helpful to see everyone's experiences. I have suffered with anxiety following an accident so it does worry me slightly when people say it has caused breakdowns but wouldn't want that to be the reason I don't do it.
Puggs what you say about the early years sector definitely rings true for me, I love working with the children and watching the grow from babies to confident happy pre-schoolers. However the hours are long there are no breaks or holidays and the pay is awful (earnt under 11,000 last year) it also does feel like it is not a very respected career and not much opportunity to progress.

copper you wouldn't be able to tailor your plans to your current class in the summer holidays as you wouldn't know what your class is like at that stage. Teachers can have a good work life balance as long as they just stick to what's necessary for the children's progress?

just stick to what's necessary for the children's progress?

Clay, that does depend a bit on the class - though I agree that summer holiday planning is always more about the 'generic' planning, while 'in term' planning is all about adapting it to the needs of the class.

So if last year had e.g. 1 child with dyscalculia, 1 with limited hearing, 2 with working memory issues, 1 with sight issues requiring preparation of separate resources, 2 at different stages of EAL and 3 with behaviour issues that required adaptations of planning or individual plans for a 1:1 TA to use (combined with the usual wide range of ability, which he 'standard' plans are differentiated for.) This year I might have a totally different mix - for example a child with global developmental delay, 1 with cerebral palsy, 3 with symptoms of dyslexia but no identified cause (so not working memory or sight issues), 1 dyspraxic child etc.

Even if the 'standard' plans are re-useable, it is really hard to attain a god work / life balance while doing everything that's necessary for EVERY child's progress in EVERY lesson?

Yes, there are also 'nice to haves' - displays, specifically engaging resources, revising lessons that could be improved but aren't 'awful' - which CAN be omitted to improve work / life balance.

IME a school's marking policy can make a HUGE difference, along with class sizes. 2 written comments - 1 good and 1 developmental - in every book in every subject for the next lesson for a class of 32 is a killer. Highlighted learning objectives and underlining showing where each was met, and the occasional summative comment or e.g. spellings to write out for a class of 25, with some subjects being onkly occasionally marked: much easier on the work/life balance!

I think every child making progress in every lesson is a bit unrealistic cant! IME much of a teacher's workload is due to unreasonable marking and planning policies, but it's down to teachers themselves to challenge this. No one else will! Too much work is down to carrying out work to benefit someone else's career!

Clay - in the 30 odd yrs since I've started teaching, I've never worked in a school where I can repeat my lesson planning year on year.
Sometimes because of changes to the curriculum and often because of changes of year groups. Then you get a 'new system / format for planning' that the SMT insist on, etc.,etc. It just doesn't happen.

copper you wouldn't be able to tailor your plans to your current class in the summer holidays as you wouldn't know what your class is like at that stage. Teachers can have a good work life balance as long as they just stick to what's necessary for the children's progress?

its true I haven't met them, but I have all their paperwork, so I know which children are autistic, and how they need work differentiated, etc, i know mostly which topics I am teaching, completely different to last year, etc,

I need to be able to hit the ground running, you can change things and adapt them as you go along, but you can't plan from scratch at the start of September

I think every child making progress in every lesson is a bit unrealistic cant! IME much of a teacher's workload is due to unreasonable marking and planning policies, but it's down to teachers themselves to challenge this

that is fine, as long as you can afford to lose your job.

It can't be right that children can only learn well if their teachers work in the holidays and late into the evenings, on top of long days!?!