Threshold for permanent exclusion.

[whatthehell33]

Hi! Related to another thread I have on a school based issue. We're trying to work out the best thing to do and just wondered if any teachers could help by telling us what sort of behaviour sees children permanently excluded? I understand it's rare and the threshold's very high these days. What makes a school say enough is enough? Thanks!

IMO a child who has assaulted a member of staff should not be able to remain - it's on a totally different level to assaulting another student (which in our school, an assault would be a fixed term exclusion anyway). I was shoved by a student and the head made the decision to PEX almost instantly. One of serious incident with no previous. Other students and parents were saying they didn't feel safe with a child in school who had assaulted an adult. Those kids are likely to be back in mainstream after a stint in a pru and hopefully have learnt from their mistake and won't make it again.

However, there does surely need to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere? You say who does exclusion help, well perhaps it sends a message to the children and staff in the school that they do not have to accept being bullied, hurt, threatened and verbally abused. That their rights matter too?
This - 100% over!! And without a serious incident, it doesn't come easily. There will be lots of chances and support and intervention. School will probably tried negotiated transfers/managed move/stint in a PRU to try and avoid it, but there definitely has to be a point where enough is enough.

The point at dad's old school came six weeks before GCSE's. Too late for anyone. I'd be happy to pay higher taxes if it meant there were high quality specialist schools to deal with behaviour and specialist need.

However I'd be lynched for saying that on the SEN boards. Oddly enough dd, found the continuous disruption at state secondary unbearable. She was happier at an Indy but always felt unhappy about what had happened and became depressed. Her GCSE's were off target (three B's crept in coupled with anxiety). She started self harming at 15, then anorexia. She dropped out of L6 after a term and a half (school was a mistake but she was determined to follow her brother). After a lot of turmoil and private MH support she was diagnosed last year with ADHD ADD variant.

She was never a minutes trouble and performed well although was never teaching the potential of her brilliant occasional peaks.

Disruption and noise comes at a huge cost IMO to the entire school community. All those D's that could have been a C, multiplied throughout cohorts all the way up to the As that could have been an A*. Yet it seems rather than work on real achievement schools have acted on driving down standards and have applauded grade softening.

It will be interesting to see the impact of the new GCSE's on the ethos of behaviour management and perhaps we'll see a return to more structured times?

Dd's diagnosis has been transformative but an environment that was scarily disruptive took it's toll. It shouldn't have.

I'm leaving my school this year because of exactly this problem. Persistent low-level disruption from 8 students in the same year group was ignored by slt. Across the board, most kids still did okay, but not as well as they could have. (Think As instead of A*s and Cs instead of Bs.)

It was incredibly stressful at the time because I knew it was a problem. I knew I was failing most pupils because I had to spend so much lesson time dealing with the difficult children the others largely got a very poor deal. But nobody listened when I spoke up.

It is good to see that there are some head teachers who consider shoving a teacher a serious matter. I suggested to my head it was assault (pupil involved was 15 and physically bigger and stronger than the teacher) but was told I was being dramatic.

There's a five year old in my school who has

• hit
• bitten
• spat at
• pulled their hair so much that it fell out
• pinched
• used every variant of fucking bitch available

to his class teacher, the 3 infant TAs, the 2 DHTs, the HT and the caretaker.

He hasn't even been sent home for the afternoon because the LA is so anti-exclusion. At times there can be 3 adults dealing with him.

It isn't right for him, it's certaintly not helping others.

Inclusion isn't working.

Effic, I want to work at your school!

Lichfield, sounds like an average day at my school too. Infuriating isn't it 😞

Lichfield It'd be interesting to see if the LA had an EHCP submission (assuming he's been in school almost three terms so a history of behaviour to chart) showing that the child needed periods of 3 x full-time supervision, break time cover and extra planning/ meeting time if they'd still go down the inclusion route, or swiftly find a cheaper alternative.

The ed pysch on the case (well, that's optimistic) reckons we haven't tried hard enough. She is notorious for taking at least 3 years to even utter the magical words 'alternate provision'. Whether that's a personal/ moral thing or a council/poltical thing I don't know.

Yep Lichfield, all too familiar. Sad for the child obviously as he's clearly struggling. But also sad for everybody else who's suffering because of him.

There have been a few over the years. Some for drug related offenses eg bring drugs onto sch site, attempting to deal drugs on sch site (weed). Bringing weapons onto sch site, some threats made, but never attempted to use. One set fire to sch (very small, put out quickly). Numerous ones following many incidents of poor behaviour and fixed term excursions and failed managed transfers.

And you see us poor old parents just end up thinking this is go do with the tea no v professional lack of moral boundaries.

Who does PEX help

The children in the class
the child that has been bullied
the teacher that has been abused
the other children in the school that face abuse off the child that has been excluded.

So it helps anywhere up to however many children are on the school's role.

This is an interesting article

Teachers are held unfairly accountable for pupil behaviour, even when there are other factors at play, says one anonymous teaching assistant

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-views/i-have-been-asked-report-teachers-who-fail-control-behaviour-they