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The staffroom

Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

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Original poster

How should this teacher be dealt with?

53 replies

Babbaganush · 04/03/2017 10:55

Have change some details so not identifying.

Dc came home from school upset that DHT had confiscated an item of hers and from a few other classmates. Pupils arrived at class to find teacher not there, message comes through to go to hall where teacher was doing something. Class sit around while teacher gets on with what they are doing. A pupil askes if they can do something that is a direct breech of school rules, teacher agrees as long as he is not disturbed. Towards the end of the lesson DHT walks in and confiscates items from pupils near the door (those who had seen him approach hid items before he could see) Class teacher allows DHT to give pupils seen breaking the rules a telling off.
My dc is a stickler for the rules and was mortified to have been told off for something they had been allowed to do by teacher. I emailed school and explained dc version of events, head investigated and confirmed dc version was correct and that teacher was very much in the wrong, did not have permission to be where he was and should have been teaching class.
As far as I was concerned the matter was closed. Dc had this teacher this week and they went on a rant to the whole class and singled out dc mentioning my email!!! Dc was very upset, was seen by the HT after the lesson who enquired what was wrong. I have emailed the school with my concerns and the HT has been great, agrees teacher should not have raised the issue.
It is now in schools hands, my question is what action would you expect to be taken? Secondary school dc is Y7.

OP posts:

Megatherium · 07/03/2017 07:10

Well why didn't your son understand that it's 'against the rules' and hide his phone quicker?

Maybe because the teacher told him it was permitted? It's not remotely comparable to a teacher telling pupils to go and steal things - no teacher has authority to override the laws of the land, but may have authority to override school rules. The teacher must have known perfectly well that the fact that he gave permission mean that pupils shouldn't be punished but kept quiet anyway.

You've heard your son's version of this. The teachers version might be very different

On the other hand, the head, who presumably has heard the teacher's version, agrees that the teacher was in the wrong.

SpareASquare · 07/03/2017 07:19

I'd organise a picket line and hound that teacher right out of their job.

Geez OP. Is it that big of a deal? I wouldn't 'expect' anything. I'd leave it to the HT to deal with as they saw fit. An incident like that I probably wouldn't even hear about, especially in yr 7.

What do YOU want to happen?

lavenderandrose · 07/03/2017 07:20

I don't think in itself the confisticafion of the phone was wrong. The teacher should not have given permission but really the children should not have asked.

However the teacher was certainly wrong to have a go at your child after the email. That being said, I feel sorry for them. It sounds like something else is going on.

daisydalrymple · 07/03/2017 07:20

I don't understand the negative answers here? The teacher gave the children permission to do something and should have told the HT so. It's totally wrong for the teacher to then single your daughter out and tell her off for having told you. I'd be extremely worried this teacher won't treat your daughter fairly from now on TBH. I hope it's resolved fairly for your dd.

lavenderandrose · 07/03/2017 07:26

I think daisy if the schools I've worked in are anything to go by, the confiscation of the item would still have happened even with the permission of the teacher.

ParadiseCity · 07/03/2017 07:27

The first part is fair enough - similar has happened to my DC and it's one of those things when you break a rule. However unreasonable the rule may be, if you get caught it's tough shit butties for you.

The second part with the teacher singling out DC is truly rubbish.

Jellybellyqueen · 07/03/2017 07:28

spare I've got the pitchforks

Comingupcabbages · 07/03/2017 07:32

Interesting to see the reactions from some teachers on here.

seven201 · 07/03/2017 07:44

If it were my school the email complains would be used as evidence during performance management, so no moving up the pay scale at the end of the year.

Comingupcabbages · 07/03/2017 07:47

So should parents not raise issues then?

lavenderandrose · 07/03/2017 07:54

Absolutely they should coming and I agree with you, that sometimes the defensive responses are over the top.

I think typically it's because all of us have experienced a child going home and claiming one thing happened (my favourite was a Y8 boy who went home saying I'd chased him onto the bus screaming - I'd actually given him a very mild telling off after the lesson for chatting and then when he'd gone realised he'd left his bag, so went on the school bus to return it for him!)

In this case the teacher was definitely in the wrong in the second scenario but IMO, misguided, rather than wrong, in the first. Undoubtedly he shouldn't have let the kids on their phones but I have done similar myself - usually where I haven't heard someone properly and I've done a 'yes, yes' vaguely and then heard squeals of glee and thought 'shit, what did I just agree to!'

All in all then, I don't think it was worth emailing about and seemed a bit mean spirited to me: it was clearly to get the teacher in trouble. (Schools with draconian rules about phones are often draconian with teachers too, funnily enough!) Given the OP did, though, it was obviously AWFUL of the teacher to have a go at the child about it - but that does indicate someone very stressed about something and I'd hazard a guess SLT just might be something to do with it.

Oblomov17 · 07/03/2017 08:04

Having a go at the child, once mum has sent an email, seems OTT.

BertrandRussell · 07/03/2017 08:29

"Interesting point - most schools will not give you the teachers email address and you have to contact the office directly - no way round it! "

Really? I thought it was usual to be able to email teachers directly- you can at all the schools round here. Are we just lucky?

Floggingmolly · 07/03/2017 08:32

Why did they ask to do something that was in clear breach of school rules? It was never going to end well?

cheeseandpineapple · 07/03/2017 08:49

"Misguided" in the first scenario is a generous interpretation! Teacher was meant to be teaching. Pupils are missing a lesson and then the teacher hasn't got the balls to say he/she had given permission for them to go on their phones.

Intent in emailing isn't necessarily to get teacher in trouble but to defend a child who has got into trouble by an arse covering teacher. If the teacher ends up getting into trouble it's because they were doing something wrong.

Maybe teacher has good reason for his/her actions and can defend him/herself for why not teaching but not taking responsibility for allowing the students to use their phones and allowing them to get in trouble is wrong and unfair. Then humiliating the student in class about it is potentially damaging to the child and unprofessional.

Pattern of behaviour emerging. SLT stress or not, OP's child should not be forced to bear the brunt of it.

I'm not a teacher but my mum is a retired teacher and her mum and grandmother were teachers. I respect the profession and know that teachers can be given a hard time by parents. But this particular teacher has crossed lines and the reaction to OP's email is pretty inexcusable.

It's good that this has been picked up and Head can follow up on it as it suggests there are deeper underlying issues which need addressing.

kesstrel · 07/03/2017 21:22

If someone was getting in touch with my school having issues with my lesson I'd damn well want to know who/where it's come from (or how on earth am I meant to know which kid has a problem?).

It wasn't the child who had the problem: why would you assume it was from the mention of "a problem with lesson materials"? The teacher gave the class an extract to analyse (English Lit) supposedly from Du Maurier's Rebecca, but when my daughter showed it to me at home, it was actually from a rewritten version, at about the level of English of a 10 year old (we found the source on the Internet). My daughter didn't want the embarrassment of speaking to her directly.

MaisyPops · 08/03/2017 06:56

Interesting to see the reactions from some teachers on here.
The teacher in the OP was in the wrong quite clearly. The parent had evey right to raise the issue. What they don't have the right to (in my opinion) is being given updates over exactly what the head is doing.

What I disagreed with is the idea that another poster mentioned about sending complaints about a teacher but refusing to say which kid etc. If there's a query about my teaching then raise it with me and I'll gladly talk to thr parents. What I dislike is contacting someone higher refusing to name the child meaning no fair conversation can be had. In short, just trying to stir it up if I'm honest.

My daughter didn't want the embarrassment of speaking to her directly
I see why you'd want to raise it and you'd be right to. So raise it with the class teacher directly. Why would what seems to be a mistake need to be passed to someone other than the class teacher?

I have zero issues with raising valid issues. I have lots of issues with raising issues above classroom teachers that could be quite easily responded to by the teacher.

MaisyPops · 08/03/2017 06:58

kesstrel when I mention kids having a problem. I say it because colleagues have had parents calling up complaining saying that there's an issue with help/support or not enough challenge. Knowing which child those issues affect means they can do something or explain that all is in hand.
If they'd done what a PP did and email someone other than the class teacher and not named the child (out of some principle) then the class teacher isnt able to help at all. No need to not give the full picture

meditrina · 08/03/2017 07:07

I think the 'rant' to the whole class, singling out one pupil because of his parent's (justified) complaint is a serious misjudgement.

I think there is a lot of minimising on this thread, including quibbling about the pupil's choice of language in describing what it felt like to be singled out at all to the class.

The teacher should have been apologising for not informing DHT that the action was authorised.

And never mentioning the circumstances of the (upheld) complaint.

eurochick · 08/03/2017 08:06

I'm shocked at some of the responses on here. Do some teachers really think it is ok to scapegoat a child in their care to avoid censure themselves?

fruityb · 08/03/2017 08:12

This is why I hate emails sometimes... had all sorts forwarded to me and one parent demanding my personal email so she could contact me as and when!

Teacher will probably be spoken to. Move on. This is what will drive me out of the job one day:

claraschu · 08/03/2017 08:18

Teacher sounds like a coward (not speaking up to HT) and a bully (scapegoating child who spoke up). How is this ok? How is this setting a good example to the children?

Megatherium · 08/03/2017 08:18

Why did they ask to do something that was in clear breach of school rules? It was never going to end well?

That's totally irrelevant, isn't it, FloggingMolly? It wasn't OP's child who asked, and the teacher could and apparently should have said No.

MaisyPops, if the teacher has been using the wrong materials, it's an issue that affects every child in the class.

AllPowerfulLizardPerson · 08/03/2017 08:51

"Do some teachers really think it is ok to scapegoat a child in their care to avoid censure themselves?"

It's rare, but yes, occasionally you will come across a bad teacher.

MaisyPops · 08/03/2017 19:59

MaisyPops, if the teacher has been using the wrong materials, it's an issue that affects every child in the class.

I know. I have no issue with raising it. But it should be raised with the class teacher, not by going above their head.

Do some teachers really think it is ok to scapegoat a child in their care to avoid censure themselves?
Nobody is saying that it's ok to scapegoat a child!
What people are saying is that a parent has no right to a step by step review of what happens when a head teacher deals with an issue. The head knows. They are paid to deal with it. They are dealing with it.
Some people (& seen it on other threads) seem to turn any disagreement with school into a viewing sport for parents.

If i have an issue in a hospital or spa and report it, i trust the manager will sort it. I dont expect a full run down.

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