public humiliation

[WeirdOne]

My DS, 13, was recently upset by the way marks for a routine class test were given out. Everybody was made to stand up and the marks were then read out from highest to lowest. Each child was allowed to sit down once their mark had been read out, so the children with the lowest marks were standing until the end.

I wondered what the educational value of this might be and whether this kind of approach is encouraged or discouraged in schools and during teacher training.

Sorry to intrude on your teacher space - I know how hard you all work, but I wanted some perspective from teachers not parents!

And what are you hoping to achieve from this?

Out of interest, where do you draw the line? If you did a quick vocab test and asked the kids who got 10/10 to put their hands up so you could quickly see how the class had done, would that also count as humiliating those with a lower score?

It's nice. The kids like it and they get to congratulate each other for doing well.

Fuzzy read this thread. I'm presuming you haven't already. You don't know the kids like it. Read the thread. Then you will understand. And if you don't then I despair.

Both my children would be devastated unless they were top and the teacher would still get the impression they liked it. Sorry OP have hijacked your thread but am supporting you!

How horrible OP.
I would hope teachers celebrate success but making kids stand up whilst their low or high marks are read out is horrid.
I used to love highlighting how certain students had really improved. It can be demoralising if particular students always feel like they are getting the lowest marks.

I have read the thread. I really don't get what your problem is. It's nice to celebrate success occasionally. I don't identify kids with low scores and I use it for things like vocab tests and fact tests where the brightest kids don't necessarily get the highest marks.

I also don't read out any marks or use this for big tests or exams.

I understand not humiliating individual pupils by reading out their low marks one by one.

I'm not sure I agree that those with top marks should be hidden from view rather than celebrated because someone might be upset that they weren't top.

Ok I'm going to write this in capitals

YOU SAID YOU ARE READING OUT MARKS. LOWEST TO HIGHEST. EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS THREAD AGREES THAT THIS IS MEAN. DOESN'T MATTER WHICH WAY ROUND. YES IT'S NICE TO CELEBRATE SUCCESS BUT YOU SAID YOU READ OUT EVERYONE'S MARKS. MY KIDS WOULD HATE THIS AS DID THE OPs SON.

Stepping away from this thread now!

I said no such thing. I said I use it for things they have peer marked and I start at 10. In my first post, which you clearly didn't read properly. I don't have the marks so couldn't read them out if I wanted to. I think you need to calm down a bit.

This is exceptionally poor practice, and will not motivate but knock the confidence of those that have tried but still got low marks - for whatever reason.

I would be furious at this, would interrogate the school about their policy of building confidence in pupils; of seeing mistakes as opportunities for learning rather than punishment and question if this is a formal policy of the school.

Writing it in capitals doesn't make it any more what Fuzzy said she did!

I am perfectly calm thank you don't be so.patronising.

I recently used this exact piece of evidence as one of the reasons for taking a member of staff through competency procedures.

I argued:

1. There is ALOT of research to show that, from both ends of the academic spectrum, encouraging students to measure their own progress against that of others is, in fact detrimental to their overall attainment.
2. It shows that the member of staff probably isn't tracking data, or looking at how to improve students' attainment on an individual level. If they are 'norm referencing', which is what this is, they are defining success in learning by a measure that may shift from year to year. They are not looking at their individual students and examining the way in which they have made progress personally. That would be a much more effective measure of improvement and learning.

My old secondary pinned exam results outside each classroom. Alphabetical order but everyone could see who was top or bottom.

Playing devils advocate though, most DC know how they did compared to others in their class for most things. Whether they tend to be top, middle or bottom despite mixed ability tables. And when they do GCSEs etc they are being compared to others in their age group.

There's also a lot of research which shows that girls in particular underestimate their own attainment in maths, which leads to lower confidence and contributes to the disparity in girls versus boys take-up of maths/further maths A-level, which ultimately contributes towards the gender pay-gap.

Providing an objective benchmark of their performance against others can counteract that.

(Not that I'm saying that pupils with low scores should be highlighted in public, btw, but that a constant focus on personal progress with no external benchmarking can cause under-confidence in those who are objectively doing well).

Absolutely noble. I teach only girls and whilst I'm absolutely not in favour of highlighting who has the lowest marks I think occasionally letting kids know who did well can be good for building confidence. Especially on simple fact tests etc where hard-work counts for more than ability. I have a girl in a mixed ability class who has SEN and the lowest predicted grade in her class but on vocab definition tests often gets the highest mark, she struggles with synthesising ideas and she's a long way from being able to write a coherent essay but she has pretty much perfect recall. She LOVES an opportunity for other kids to see that she's done well at something.

I ask the kids to stand up. Then I ask those who think they could have worked harder to sit down and I praise their honesty.

Then I ask the others standing do they think they did their best. Most still feel they could have done better but are pleased they worked hard and feel they're improving.

Win Win.