PCGE with no intention of teaching ?

[Sofabitch]

Has anyone done the pcge with no intention of actually going into teaching?

I'm considering doing it. The bursary is pretty good and I could really do with a year to bump up my finances and repair my savings after 3 years of student finance before starting on the bottom rung of somewhere.

I figure it will look great on my CV regardless and has loads of great skills that I can take with me into my carer, plus I can get 60 credits at Masters level which saves a few thousand on the OU.

Is this an unworkable plan?

I mean there is a possibility I'll love it right ;-) but from everything I've read I'm not holding my breath.

I think i would enjoy it. But realistically don't think I could be a teacher in today's climate.

"I am at the top of my scale as a TA, working around 30 hours a week and my annual gross salary is just on £12k. "

I think that wage is terrible. I couldn't live on that and wouldn't leave a job that paid more (my jobs don't pay much more) to be a TA for a few years before doing a PGCE.

If your ds was only earning 4500, he was presumably being helped by you as that is not a wage that someone can live on.

"making it harder to get in discourages some of those who may have gone into teaching as a stop-gap in years gone by"

But isn't Teach First the same idea? That young people teach for a few years before moving on?

Teach First are a bit marmite, but they have a mission to combat educational inequality. Teach First trainees are trained for two years, but only in challenging schools, and the expectation is that after those two years they will either continue to teach and move into leadership positions, or leave teaching but continue to work for the cause in some way. Ideally they'd like to see journalists, ministers, civil servants, charity heads etc with teaching experience.

Well, he had only just finished school and was living at home so to him, it was a lot. To his credit, he insisted on giving us something towards his food. We didn't give him anything extra although I suppose electricity etc was covered by us. He isn't someone who spends loads on going out, clothes, alcohol etc, so was able to manage on his wage. Even at university, his loans and grants paid almost all his costs and we just topped up his account for food with small amount each month. His university town was very poor in terms of student jobs and in any case, his degree meant he had a lot of lectures to attend and time not in lectures was usually spent in labs. He had to learn early on to budget and to stick to it. Pgce year felt like he'd won the lottery!

For people seeking to change career, I can see how it would be difficult if not impossible to get the experience in school. I imagine this is why some pics providers only look for two weeks experience, so that people can use annual leave.

Teach First, as I understand it, means that you are learning the job as you do it with some extra non contact time for training either in school or at university for a day here and there. At least, that's been the case with teach first students at my school. Pgce involved a lot more university time with two placements. Placements were around 8 weeks and 10 weeks. My feeling is that pgce seemed to give DC a grounding that could be transferred to any number of schools whereas Teach First seems more geared to the school where you train.

Soupandasandwich

I guess that making it harder to get in discourages some of those who may have gone into teaching as a stop-gap in years gone by.

Is this really a bad thing?

As an aside-did anyone see the television program about those Teach First people a year or two ago? I wonder how many of those are still in teaching?

I was a school based mentor for teach first in the first couple of years after it began. They were a real mixed bag. Some are still teaching, in hod or smt and the ones who appeared to be treating it as the equivalent a gap year trip to a third world country have, predictably, gone to other careers.

I moved out of London a few years ago. There it seemed to be a common route into teaching but where I live now it's never mentioned. There are lots of school based training schemes though, of varying quality I think.

I'm a week and a half in to my PGCE, and I'm totally lost. Don't go in just for the money, go and get a job.

"I guess that making it harder to get in discourages some of those who may have gone into teaching as a stop-gap in years gone by.

Is this really a bad thing?"

Well, is there a recruitment crisis or not? (or is it just something teachers claim?) Are there shortage subjects or not? If there's demand, they shouldn't be so fussy.

Well, is there a recruitment crisis or not? (or is it just something teachers claim?) Are there shortage subjects or not? If there's demand, they shouldn't be so fussy.

We shouldn't be so fussy about who teaches our kids????

And you are being deliberately facetious regarding getting experience-I've repeatedly
said you don't need to spend all 'summer holidays' in schools before you apply and I can quite believe your friends (or is it just one?) didn't do this. I didn't for example. But it has always been a requirement of the PGCE to spend at least a few days observing classroom practice prior to the course starting.

I don't agree with Teach First either. Another government failure in my opinion.

"We shouldn't be so fussy about who teaches our kids???? shock"

Obviously we should be fussy about the important things, can they make decent teachers, are they child abusers, but I don't think requiring people to have prior experience is the right way because it obviously favours certain people who are able to work for peanuts as a TA.

Yes, I did see that the work experience could only be a few days. In which case, what's the point? What can you really learn in 5 to 10 days of observing in a classroom that you didn't learn in 15 years of being a pupil in a classroom? I did some observation when I was a language assistant, but didn't find it useful at all, might have been if I'd had specific things to look out for.

Another thing I saw online is that they've changed the requirement for GCSE Maths from a C to a B. I'm not convinced that someone with a C in GCSE Maths couldn't be a good teacher of a humanities/arts subject. I would have thought that communication skills were more important.

Yes, I did see that the work experience could only be a few days. In which case, what's the point?

Because it would weed out the people who realised that actually, it was the wrong environment for them, or the ones who didn't know what to do and just signed up for a PGCE because why not? When I applied for my PGCE (I only did one day in a school before then), the interviews were in a school, and we had to spend one lesson in a classroom with kids. The teacher then fed back to the ITT interviewer on how we interacted with the kids. Those who were too intimidated to even talk to the kids were obviously marked down. The ITT guy said that they deliberately held the interviews in a school because even that would filter out some applicants - they wouldn't turn up because they were put off by the thought of being in a school! In those cases it's a filter rather than a learning exercise.

They haven't changed the GCSE requirement for maths to a B, except in Wales. Wales do their own thing.

"
They haven't changed the GCSE requirement for maths to a B, except in Wales. Wales do their own thing."

Ah OK, it's Wales that interests me and that's where I looked online and presumed it might be the same for England. If I considered doing a PGCE in England I'd have to pay 3 times the fees.

remember/currently talk about, the preparation your teacher friends did, circa 1996/1997
Indeed. Loads of out of date stuff on here.
And people are also woefully out of date here re the qualification.
You get QTS at the end of the PGCE if you meet the standards (box ticking)
They will not in any case want to fail you because of the endless hassle they will get in justifying that for their stats - you would have to be seriously bad to fail.
You get PGCE if you pay the fees (usually done via a loan, not paid upfront - loan can be repaid over 30 years or written off after that time depending on earnings) and pass the assignments to cover the academic side (no need to bust a gut on them - as you have already done a degree you will not find them onerous).
You do not ever need to do the NQT year nowadays because most schools are and will continue to be academies, free schools and indies - but if you do, there is no time limit to doing it. Even LA schools will have to drop the requirement with increasing cohort numbers and recruitment competition with other schools.
ITTs peddle this fallacy re the 'NQT year for QTS' for their own stats, because they don't look good if their trainees do not go immediately into state schools. One major provider told a recent PGCE student that if he got a job in an indie it would negatively affect their stats, and was pressured massively to going into the state sector.
Not all schools demand endless amounts of paper 'evidence' for each lesson. The evaluations are a doddle - just thrown in the buzzwords the 'lecturers' feed you.
Be nice to the mentor - from what we've heard on here you'd think they are all needy martyrs - but in RL I meet many who are not and also many who do the minimum to tick the boxes for their next promotion.
No-one will be insistent that you applying for jobs in Feb since many vacancies will not appear till later.
(And if you are so good that they urge you to apply for vacancy at their school - well done - you've clearly delivered fab lesson and the DC will have benefited from your time there.)

BoneyBackJefferson

Soupandasandwich

I guess that making it harder to get in discourages some of those who may have gone into teaching as a stop-gap in years gone by.

Is this really a bad thing?

IMO, no. As a parent I wanted my dcs to be not only knowledgeable in their subject, but truly passionate about sharing that knowledge and encouraging their students to want to discover and learn about it as well. I think we absolutely must be fussy about the people we allow into our classrooms - I'm sure that most of us can remember a teacher who inspired us and one who completely turned us off a subject. I know I can.
Where I work I see both. I love working with those for whom teaching is a true vocation -their live and enthusiasm is contagious, whereas those who view it as a stepping stone to something better, make the days seem far longer.

In shortage subjects, we need to continue to be rigorous in selection because fewer good teachers will lead to fewer students continuing the subjects to degree standard and therefore fewer potential teachers for the future.

Sounds like shitty behaviour to me, for all the reasons mentioned above.

my DC's teachers*

Wouldn't those credits only go towards an MA in Education, though?

It seems a really crap idea to me, the whole thing. Just get a bloody job and stop taking the piss.

I did my PgCE with 3 dc, it was the hardest year I've ever had and everything ino family and domestics went to pot. Luckily I had dh to pick up some of the slack, but xmas was half what it usually was as I'd no energy to do the extra bits and of course dh was working too, so could only do so many extra things on top of the more than usual things he had to do.
The kids helped out too, but it wasn't quite the same, for the whole year all our important events were halved ito effort. I lasted for 2 years including induction year and feel like I wasted mine and the family time I'll never get back.
I have an interest in education though and have considered topping up to a Masters, but I can't afford it, just for fun.
I'd say study education before a teaching qual as it's pointless and such hard work unless you aim to be a teacher.

The OP is not suggesting doing it with 3DC. So completely irrelevant what is like with 3DC.

I did it with no DC and it was bloody awful.

Slightly off topic but is it much easier teaching at an Indy ? Much smaller classes, discipline etc

roar my impression is that it is different, but not necessarily easier.
Easier in some ways in that you generally have smaller classes, discipline/ behaviour is usually better. So I think the actual teaching side might be easier.

But, on the other hand there can be lots of pressure on results, pushy parents and an expectation that teachers will run extra curricular clubs. Lots of private schools have Saturday classes and obviously boarding schools involve evening duties too.

My impression is that the hectic nature of term time is even more condescended than in the state sector. Obviously there are usually longer holidays, but if you've done nothing but work for a whole term, then I'm not sure it makes up for it personally.

It's more pleasant in an independent school. You still have to work hard.