Parents are to be given the right to request schools offer childcare in the holidays

[rollonthesummer]

Apologies for posting this twice, but I'm not happy!

bbc

Parents in England are to be given the right to request schools provide childcare for the full working day during term time and in the holidays.

So, school just is childcare then, thanks, Nicky!?

Who is going to pay for the wages of the staff doing the childcare?
Where is it going to happen?
When will the essential maintenance and repair work that can only be done when there are no children around take place?

Some school staff will go for this, predominantly those without children or those whose children are older. I know many TAs who work for play schemes, youth groups or sports clubs during the holidays to top-up their paltry wages. I imagine it would appeal to some. But it should not be an expectation

"Not everyone is able to get off work at 3pm and have 12 weeks off work."

Piss off!

'"Not everyone is able to get off work at 3pm and have 12 weeks off work."

Piss off!'

Unlike you, NK5BM3? Aren't you a university employee or something?
Months off, hours to suit and the opportunity to be indifferent to students who don't have their mummies within wailing distance?
By all means, let's run childcare in the holidays.
We can teach them all those PSHCE skills and stuff they lack, get them off their arses and away from the technology and tackle the obesity crisis.
Then we won't be spending curriculum time in the school day trying to do all those things that use to be considered parenting responsibilities in the past.
Everybody wins. Pay supply staff through the holidays to run it.

At my school a HLTA runs the breakfast club, along with two other TAs.
ASC onsite is provided by an external agency, run in the hall.
This company also run a holiday club off site which parents can choose to use.
I know that there is another company offering AS and holiday care off site locally too.

It would not always be practical to use the school building in holidays as that is when much maintenance does happen. School get a lot of wear and tear during the year and do require a fair bit of general maintenance in big holidays, at times when children are not present - health and safety around children is big obviously. The only space large enough for an ASC is our hall really, so not easy to house them elsewhere when the hall needs new floor coatings, etc.

"'"Not everyone is able to get off work at 3pm and have 12 weeks off work."

Piss off!'"

Not sure why the epithet.

I know several people who have negotiated term-time working, and quite a lot who have shorter daily hours so they can be at the school by 3:30ish. But not a single one who has arranged both. So I think it's exceptionally rare (not just 'not everyone') to have both long holidays and early finish time.

mischief' why the angry tone? I didn't say the teachers had to supply the after school care. I said it was about having outside providers do the afterschool activities.

We all can't be at the school gate at 3pm. Not even teachers with children. So we all rely on afterschool care. We all don't have grandparents or sahp to pick the kids up.

And surely as a university employee (thanks for trolling? Or do we know each other?) if I actually do have all those weeks off to do nothing as you seem to think and such flexi hours, then surely I won't need all that afterschool care?

After all I can swan into the office at 9.30 after drop off, deliver a lecture on existentialism, have a coffee because it's so tiring, complain about politics, have an important lunch meeting with the vice chancellor about university fees and then go pick my darlings up at 3pm.

'Not sure why the epithet.'

So you've not had that line glibly thrown at you by non-teachers for decades? Some of us are weary beyond civility about it.
In the same way that working parents can't stand 'Why have children and farm them out to others? Why not have a cat instead?'

Fwiw I'm just about to book holiday camp for the kids for October half term. This incidentally is being held at one of the local high school's premises.

Previously for summer, we've used whole day multi sport camps, multi activity camps and these were also held at the nearby 6th form independent schools and colleges. These are entirely run by companies and outsourced by the schools. The schools get paid, the camp organisers get paid. Costs range from £100-200/week/child.

I'm not angry, I'm a happy supply teacher. I'd like a little holiday job to tide me over.

I think there's a gap for Mrs Mischief's school of manners and lifeskills.
We could include all the extras; brushing teeth, eating well, washing, showering, grooming...

Oh!

I didn't read it as a pop at teachers at all. Just the impossibility of getting a job that lets you cover the time your DC are not in school without recourse to holiday clubs and/or after school care. There's consistent demand from working parents, because jobs that fit round schoolchildren are as rare as hen's teeth.

When I was made redundant during the primary years and we realised I could afford to stay at home for a few years it was the most enormous logistic relief.

Omg mischief if I may, that statement was not at all about the teachers!! I have plenty of teacher friends who I know don't get off work till 5/6 and therefore do use after school clubs. It was meant to say that given the way work is structured, it's a rare job that allows anyone to pick up at 3 every day and have 12 weeks off. Teachers might have the 12 weeks off but they don't get off at 3. And those people who have flexi jobs and can go at 3 really don't have the 12 weeks break!

And therefore why working parents in general are wanting after school care. Whether that is provided by school or provided by outsiders is a different issue.

I think what I said was entirely misconstrued.

Cross post with AuntieStella

And if anything, I have helped several of my teacher friends out with child care when they had parents evenings and other such activities at school.

Our school runs a before and after school club. And also runs holiday clubs for certain weeks of the year. They cover Easter and 4 weeks of the summer hols.

It's staffed by LSA's who work in class during the day, then run the holiday club in the weeks that it runs for. It gives the staff who are paid on a term-only basis a welcome boost to their wage. I do worry that they are over-worked as they work a longer day than any of the teachers. They work from half 7 in the morning til 5.30pm and most of them are lunchtime supervisers too. How they do it I don't know.

I wouldn't mind doing a week or two of running a summer club. If you could get lots of parents involved you could do it in shifts. My two would love it. The chance to go in and play with their friends every day? And I get paid? Brilliant.

Surely they can request until they're blue in the face? Doesn't mean it will happen.

I think the right the right to request is only significant in that it will have to be recorded, as will the reasons for its acceptance/turning down.

MsAdorabelle the ifs are significant, though your spirit is admirable. The questions I'd be asking is, if it's that straightforward, why isn't it already happening? Worth looking at the reasons.

I'm not saying this to piss on your chips, by the way.

Questions/are: subject/verb agreement, FFS.

3) where does it say school is just childcare? It doesn't and you're projecting.

Erm - it quite clearly says 'Parents in England are to be given the right to request schools provide childcare for the full working day during term time and in the holidays'

It's the right to request. Presumably the schools have the right to say sod off, for all the reasons you list.

Erm - apparently not...
"If enough parents call for childcare at their local school, we will expect the school to take reasonable steps to accommodate it, in a way that works for them.

I know teachers get all the crap about starting late, finishing early and long holidays - but I leave the house at 7 to be on site for 7:15, don't leave our alt ed site until 4 and then spend unpaid hours evenings and weekends, developing sessions and resources that suit the learners I am working with. Added to that - at least half the holiday time, we do work on site unpaid for the next half term. Repairs, new builds, sourcing materials, tool and equipment audits and repairs etc. And in amongst that - we may get a week or two over the year to ourselves.

If this goes ahead we'd just close down and offer the space to adults not kids. End of. 39 weeks a year is hard enough - 52 they can fuck off.

If enough parents call for childcare at their local school, we will expect the school to take reasonable steps to accommodate it, in a way that works for them.

What is "enough"? How many parental request trigger "enough"?

"Expect" is not require. This words has been chosen with care; they know this cannot be enforced, only the request can be enforced.

What is "reasonable"? This is a big bit of elastic band.

What does "accommodate" mean? Er.. we don't have rooms/time, etc.etc.

Who is "them"? The parents or the school?

It's all government bollocks that appears to offer parents something, but means that, in effect, fuck all will happen in an entirely reasonable way.

Seems like a lot of fuss about nothing. Our local high school runs clubs over the holidays and the primary school wraparound service provides holiday cover as well. I would imagine a local childcare provider would operate it, in the same way the provide afterschool clubs already from schools, village halls, community centres and so on. A school is just a building - far better that it be utilised as often as possible, much the same way community schools already are.

It won't be teachers running this. They have more power to decline (I think) Support staff are paid much less and it would suit some, as I mentioned before.

As Charley said - many support staff already do breakfast clubs, lunch duty, after school clubs to top up their wages. Some would see holiday clubs as an extension of this.

Our wraparound service (which is run outside the normal state nursery hours) employs specific wraparound staff, and the afterschool/holiday club's staff are employed separately too. Teaching staff are not involved in the running of either.

39 weeks a year is hard enough - 52 they can fuck off.

It wouldn't be 52, you'd be entitled to four or five weeks off the same as the rest of us.

I'm sure it would be doable. There must be loads of ta's and probably a few teachers who would be glad of a top up to their wages. And to be honest personally I would be happy to help, really I would. I'm CRB checked as a volunteer anyway and it would be the ideal way of keeping my kids entertained without them clamouring for expensive days out all summer. We already have a fabulous team that run breakfast and after school clubs, they could help out I'm sure. I'd be really excited for this to happen at our school.

It wouldn't be 52, you'd be entitled to four or five weeks off the same as the rest of us.

I am the joint owner. 5.6 weeks off - doesn't exist when you are the boss.