Teaching shortage in the news

[rollonthesummer]

I saw this in my half awake fog this morning

bbc

and thought-'ooh, are people actually accepting there's a massive recruitment/retention problem at last', as usually there's some comment like 'a spokesperson from the DFE says that there has never been a better time to enter teaching' but then I saw this was in Scotland.

I thought-from reading comments on here-that teaching was a lot better up in Scotland-less pressure to double mark etc but if Scotland are recognising there's problems, then surely it's a big issue!

Why don't they realise there's a problem, and rather than saying 'Let's give unscruplous headteachers the power to pay brilliant people more (which only in reality ends up with them paying most people badly), just stop 50% of the mindless unnecessary shite that the job entails and the fact that you are only ever one observation away from capability proceedings, and people won't be leaving in droves!

What's going to happen with it all, will it implode!?

As a teacher in Ireland there's no way I'd consider teaching in the UK from all the stories I hear coming from my year who went over. I'm not surprised at all this is happening.

Lots of advertising happening here trying to get Irish staff to go over - particularly aimed at final year college grads!

This morning I read on Facebook an article from the local paper about a teacher who has lost her job after throwing a boy's phone out of the window. She had asked him again and again to stop playing music in class, and he argued and said that he could do what he liked.

She was also a volunteer guider, and had been for about twenty years and had to leave that.

All the Facebook comments were in support of the teacher. Some people had been taught by her and said that she was an excellent teacher and a lovely caring lady. Her career has now been ruined by one boy. I feel that teachers should be supported in the classroom so that children have a good environment to learn.

Having watched educating Cardiff and Essex, I've been amazed at some of the behaviour that goes on in schools. The teachers seem wonderful but their job seems unbelievably stressful.

Very stressful (but also very rewarding). You've only got to look at the level of teacher - bashing on here and in the press to see why people don't stay in teaching. Being shouted at by a very angry parent in front of a playground full of children/parents because 'you' have lost one of their gloves/packed lunch box (in a school of 250 pupils) is a small snapshot of what teachers have to deal with. Daily.

You're only ever a step away from losing your career. False accusations (I've had 2 in 14 years), child getting injured/hoing missing on your watch, burnout from stress.

• going!

i did a 5000 word dissertation as part of my pgce so it can't be that surely?

and not many people can afford half a years pay cut on top of relocating to another country so it's not really 'only' a year. a year is a hell of a long time to survive on a 50% pay cut.

don't do it smug i've seen irish nqts on their knees. they are really not prepared for what schools are like here.

HoneyBadger I agree about the pay cut and think it is ridiculous. I am not exactly sure about the training except the PGCE/PGDE thing which I was told was a project. There seems to be some misunderstanding amount teachers up here who think English qualified teachers don't have degrees! I wonder if it is politically motivated.

i don't know - i'm secondary so have a first degree and then did my pgce. primary school teachers are different obviously.

i can understand, if training and practice is different, having a probationary year and the support and monitoring that comes with that (and the irksome after school sessions etc) which would obviously add work and time to a teacher's load but the pay cut i just can't see as justifiable and frankly seems to be a bit exploitative. maybe they'll reconsider if the shortage gets dire enough? might be plenty of english teachers with kids getting near uni age who would consider relocating to save on uni fees?

I'm 27, and every one of my friends the same age who went into teaching have left, already. Most of them lasted about a year. And they aren't afraid of paperwork and they aren't shrinking violets. It seriously opened my eyes. I don't know of anybody who has qualified recently who has actually stuck with it - it must be awful!

lots of people like to think teachers are just moaners bertie but you've seen with your own eyes and i'll bet many of them walked out and went into lower paid work which also speaks volumes.

i think it might help people 'get it' if there was some way of collating and publishing data on the levels of pay cuts competent teachers took in order to walk out of teaching.

i am from the cohort who were paid a training salary and had fees waived to try and deal with shortages
Me too except it was a 20k bursary 3 years ago.
After my training year I decided to so supply instead of NQT - never gonna be full time teacher anyway - I want a life and to see my family sometimes...

Whereas in South Wales it is almost impossible to get a sodding teaching job. Wish I could move to Scotland.

I think it's the lack of work/life balance. Yes the holidays are longer than most, but it means running yourself into the ground in term-time, not spending proper time with family/friends and rarely having an evening without work at home. Friends in normal jobs generally work regular hours, have a few weeks less holiday but have evenings to themselves, for similar/higher pay.

20k? jesus! i think we got about 6k training salary plus loan and thought we were doing well

is there a low population, lack of schools, good teacher retention or something where you are then oakmaiden?

Good teacher retention (teachers just don't leave), council cuts (most schools made teachers redundant this year - same is expected next year) and until recently there were 3 teacher training colleges churning out teachers locally. Think 2 of them have now combined.

Not to mention most of the jobs don't get advertised and are given by word of mouth....

I saw this and that a £25k tax free bursary is offered for people with a good degree to train so rang up and very tempted as love the idea and had some experience years ago.

But is the paperwork that dreadful that you wouldn't choose teaching again?

paperwork is but part of the issue. but hey if you're going to get 25k a year to train why not? how fucking stupid an idea is offering 25k a year to train rather than investing in improving conditions in schools?

how many 'hmm, not sure what to do, fuck it, will give it a go, could always do supply/private tutoring/try and get a job overseas' types will do teacher training next year?

If you have relevant experience then you can be paid more than point 0 (probationer salary) during your probation year, I always assumed this applied to teachers coming from England? Maybe I'm wrong.

I don't think my experience will help as it was informal and untrained classroom help in a school abroad for 2 months and years ago, it more just gave me a taste for teaching that I enjoyed. But I put the idea of teaching on hold for 15 years as was advised to get other experience first.
Honeybadger I hear your point of view though!

I would also genuinely like advice on whether you'd choose it again. A lot of the staff at our DC's primary have been there 15+ years and so fantastic, they genuinely say they love it. But I haven't heard their moans as they're too professional to me as a parent (nor have I asked )

We have a chronic short of hospital consultants in the south of scotland too - personally I think it's the lack of good schools which put people off. As a professional person would you want your DCs to go to schools with pupils with severe behaviour probs and no money to deal with it?
So people won't move there. I wouldn't either. Education is too important nowadays.

i don't know - i'm secondary so have a first degree and then did my pgce. primary school teachers are different obviously.

Why are they different?

I think most primary teachers go the same PGCE route now, and far fewer arrive in school with a BEd/Hons

I moved to teach in Scotland, from England, and all my teaching experience was taken into consideration. Pay is on a 6 point scale and you go up a year for 6 years and then stay at the top unless you are promoted. I had 7 years so arrived at the top of the scale.

The difference is an all graduate profession. You have to graduate (or have 2 years at degree level if changing subject / did combined honours) to teach a subject.

The islands (Barra - the Maths job on Facebook) pay a remote island weighting, for ferry fares etc.

We do work hard but nothing like the workload reported from England. I teach English and probably work 40hours a week. I am actually contracted for 35 max but have a heavy timetable / marking load that comes with my subject.

One of my friends has been teaching for 23 years. She's recently moved to Scotland. She can't get a teaching job or go on their register without doing a whole probation year, similar to the NQT or ITT year down here - evidence based and observations etc.

Her husband is the same.

So they won't be going into teaching, despite their shortage in Scotland. They feel too old (50s) to go through that stress again, with that much experience behind them.

What a screwed up system in a supposed United Kingdom tbh.