Teachers of STEM/English, what reasoned argument/experience would convince you that music is an important curriculum subject?

[MissTriggs]

Lots of worry in the music ed. Community at present about the EBAAC and in general the government's attitude to music education.

Generally the music ed people avoid making an argument that music might be useful for improving English/maths/science but given that the election is 5years away I think that we might have to change that argument.

So I wondered: what would convince teachers of "core" subjects and/or leadership teams that music education in school is or could be important and what would such a music education look like?

All thoughts appreciated

Museummum,

The short answer is no. It has not sorted itself out :(

Too much infighting, too much promotion of particular styles and techniques. People obsessed with some music "counting" some not, with promoting or reacting against particular styles. It's not impressive.....

Not a teacher but do have a professional career and dds pursuing music through abrsm and art through school curriculum.

Agree with the above but my most compelling argument would be that a lot of STEM skills can be commoditised and therefore are of diminishing value in the global market place. It is the flare and ability to generate and present ideas which art and music develop which lead to the ability to add most value.

This is true for scientists, engineers, advertising executives, computer programmers and even accountants, lawyers and economists like me.

Working on xylophones can be wonderful, can be crap. It is not the choice of instrument that makes or mars the quality.

Sadly, many musicians reject what they do not recognise from their own training.

Howabout.

YES. Yet these are the points that music educators seem not to want to make.... We are too confused...

And to give them credit, I think all recent governments have recognised this.

It should be taught because the current view is narrowing the curriculum. I teach English and over the last twenty years it has become the be- all and end- all: it isn't. We managed to keep a healthy Music curriculum at KS3 and 4 - now, though, with compulsory EBacc, our pupils will have one free option choice, with Art, Music, Drama, Food Tech, PE, Photography, Dance, Resistant Materials, Graphics etc all in one block. It is bollocks - but unless we extend the day we are screwed.

Youreallabunchofbastards

Has English as a subject changed too? Do you get time to play with the rhythms and cadences of poems and stories?

Its a shame that the move towards ebac will mean secondary kids have so few free choices at GCSE. If they do 9 subjects, and have to do Maths, 2English, 2 science, MFL, RE, and hist/geog, that only leaves them with one free choice. DD would love to do music or drama, but also wants to do triple science (and would happily drop German). I'm hoping that will remain a possibility.

Its a shame that the move towards ebac will mean secondary kids have so few free choices at GCSE. If they do 9 subjects, and have to do Maths, 2English, 2 science, MFL, RE, and hist/geog, that only leaves them with one free choice. DD would love to do music or drama, but also wants to do triple science (and would happily drop German). I'm hoping that will remain a possibility.

I do use musical instruments when teaching sound of course. I don't need to feel a link though in order to recognise the value. The educational value. In straitened times, I can see why the financial viability might be questioned by schools.

MissTriggs English has changed beyond all recognition. I am not supposed to teach a love of the written word. I have to teach kids to pass exams.

I am lucky in that I am on senior management team and work for a very moral headteacher so I don't cheat and don't feel pressured to do so. But the syllabus I am doing is not education. It is rote learning. And it is bollocks.

dammit that is bollocks isn't it?

Bloody Michael Gove. They want the "ends" of highly literate students with a powerful command of English. But then they go about it in a way that will produce something different......

If English was about command of language, then the tie-in with music would feel quite natural to everyone because fine language is partly about the quasi-musical qualities of the words....

Do you think the problem is that they saw some progressive methods that were under-ambitious and didn't work and generalised from that?

I think the problem is that we live in an "overmeasurement" culture and that in order to measure pupils' progress and make widespread comparisons quite technical tests have been developed. Too many technical tests and school becomes a factory...

The most recent OFSTED info says that schools cannot be deemed good or better unless they offer a broad and balanced curriculum.

I know there's a lot if this in the news but I don't actually know of any schools which have thrown out all arts provisions.

OP, what's your angle on this? Are you a music teacher?

One of the issues with a lot of arts subjects is that they are small departments. In my school, there is me plus one other (who teaches drama along with two other subjects) whereas Maths is 4 full time staff (v small secondary) We have no music teacher (long story) but the one we used to have wasn't consistently good, which meant that lots of kids didn't like it. In another local school, they have one drama teacher, and he is not popular with the students and so it's pretty much died out as a subject. So much is down to individuals. Not sure what my point is, but I think that arts subjects are often more about the teachers than core subjects are. The marginalisation of these subjects has meant that universities have cut ITT programmes and therefore there is even less likelihood of getting decent arts teachers in schools.

DofE interprets broad and balanced as EBacc though.

Music teaches logical thinking and from what my dd explained to me resembles programming. In fact one of my friend told me that IBM at some point for graduate program for programmers and application support was seeking Music graduates due to their ability to analyse complex logs and finding patterns others couldn't see. It is valuable skill you can teach and you get better at it.

She says that A-levels has 30% grade which is Composition. This is the hardest part for many and as she says - you can practice and get better at performance part but you are either talented at composing or find it extremely hard. But over all she wouldn't change anything else in the sylabus.

Some students may not be very academic but would find music being their strength and exceed in it.

TheFallenMadonna'- latest OFSTED paperwork mentions Music specifically in the paragraph about curriculum. It says that it will consider the curriculum on offer in its judgement about management and leadership.

I know. It was more a point about mixed messages. DofE says EBacc for all. That decreases options available for students. A smaller school will struggle to fill GCSE classes to an economically viable level in those subjects which are not part of EBacc if they offer lots of them.

I wonder about a general performing arts GCSE for those schools mentioned by Fallen Madonna.

The study of popular music is as much about stage presence and teamwork as it is about the notes.... Year 4 had fun reproducing Freddie Mercury's timing of the last note of his Live Aid performance - that could equally well have been in a drama lesson.

And many of the leading stars have for a long time been audio-visual artists - from Bowie to Gaga.

The tie-in with dance is even more obvious.

There will, I hope, be few drama, dance or art teachers who won't sing, even if they don't play any other instruments.

Is there such a thing as a performing arts GCSE? In fact the entire syllabus could be just to put on a great musical in depth....

I definitely think a performing arts GCSE may be a way forward.
I am in Scotland and my dc's secondary school end of year show is a great example of the new curriculum for excellence in practise. It is a fully staged musical with acting, singing, dancing and instrumentation. The art department and graphics and technical department are responsible for stage props, publicity and tickets etc. The local college provides a choreographer. The school also has links to a music and drama school which provides support with sound and lighting. The DC are actively involved in the financing decisions. Our school also has links to the commercial arts industry.

One of the problems that I encountered with Scottish GCSE equivalent for music was that it was not pitched at the right level for my DC who are already competent instrumentalists. Conversely it may be too challenging for those without this background. A broader arts qualification may not suffer from this so much?

There is a performing arts GCSE available now. My understanding is that it will not continue after GCSE reform. Lack of rigour.

Actually, I think it was in fact the crossover with Dance and Drama that was the issue...? EvilTwins probably knows!

EvilTwins does indeed... Yes - there is currently a GCSE in Performing Arts. I teach it. It's lovely and covers everything you could possibly want it it. And yes, it's going. Mr Gove didn't like it. Current yr 9s are the last year group who can take it, after which it's gone. Many schools have ditched it already.

It was seen as having too much crossover with music, dance and drama. Expressive Arts GCSE has also had the heave ho from Mr Gove.

BTEC and NCFE Performing Arts still exist, count towards Progress 8 and are not being given their marching orders.

Does that make sense? Is there less crossover with the BTEC?

BTEC Applied Science won't count from 2017 as there is a GCSE alternative.

Not sure really, but the BTEC is definitely staying. Possibly because L3 BTEC in Peforming Arts is seen as a decent vocational qualification and is done at a wide range of institutions - the L2 progresses naturally into it and progression routes is soothing which was considered. Maybe it's being kept because they're ditching the PA GCSE. Maybe Pearson make loads of cash from it and so their mate Dave and his mate Mike said they could carry on.

Who can tell. There seems to be neither rhyme nor reason behind much of the recent educational policy.

The level 3 Applied Science BTEC is staying too. The Applied Science vocational A level is going. They do love Pearson, it's true...