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The staffroom

Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

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Original poster

Salary to expect for second in dept

18 replies

thisismypassword · 13/05/2015 18:28

hi, what salary could I realistically request for being 2nd in dept in a secondary academy? If you're a 2nd what pay are you on?

OP posts:

MrsJacksonAvery · 13/05/2015 18:32

I get a TLR payment of £2500ish and one extra free period a week. Guess it depends on size of dept/school.

Original poster

thisismypassword · 13/05/2015 18:37

Hmmm, well due to being on mat leave and working part time I haven't had a payrise for 2 years ( thanks Gove!). I'm still on m3 and seeing as I should be on m5 this year, do you think I could ask for it? I know the current 2nd is on a tlr, so I'll be cheaper than her!

OP posts:

CtrlAltDelicious · 13/05/2015 19:11

My teacher pal is second in Science in a secondary academy. He's on M6 plus a TLR of about £7500. But he works like a dog, gets a world of shit flung at him regularly and gets called a c*nt on a daily basis by the kids. I wouldn't swap him for the world!

DuchessofBuffonia · 13/05/2015 23:42

When I was a second, my TLR was £3,750. Now I'm a Hod, it's £7,500.

Original poster

thisismypassword · 14/05/2015 18:22

Thanks for this. Makes me realise that asking for M5 from M3 isn't at all unreasonable. I haven't been teaching that long...NQT year Sept 2011 to 2012. But due yo mat leave etc I've not had chance for pay progression.

OP posts:

KinkyDorito · 15/05/2015 21:40

You would usually get a TLR for this kind of job as a supplement on top of salary - jumping up the pay scale is only good for a year.

So M4 + TLR 2a (equates to approx 2500) is worth slightly more that M5.

You want a TLR that gets added to your salary each year as you move up the pay scale. If it is a big core dept, at least TLR2b (so around 4200); small dept, 2a.

You would be selling yourself very short to miss a point on the pay scale rather than take a TLR unless you are only doing the job for a year.

Also, we used to still be able to get pay progression if on maternity - one to check with your union. I'm not sure if they've changed it as I've been UPS3 for a while now.

Original poster

thisismypassword · 16/05/2015 07:19

That's interesting kinky...
Does anyone know if you go up the mps automatically whilst on mat leave? I know I did in Sept 2013, but that may have been before Gove changed it all -- IN 2014 when I was back at work I didn't go up the scale because I'd missed out on the the appraisal cycle. I'll only be doing half an appraisal cycle this time before 2nd mat leave, so that's why I'm worried I won't get a pay rise yet again. However this 2nd job has come up which may solve all my problems!!

OP posts:

KinkyDorito · 16/05/2015 07:58

I would honestly give your union a ring. They will get you up to speed.

Go for a TLR though, don't sell yourself short.

KinkyDorito · 16/05/2015 07:59

Also, if you have met all your PM targets, I don't think it should matter if you've missed half a cycle?

KinkyDorito · 16/05/2015 07:59

I suppose it depends how it falls. Union!

Original poster

thisismypassword · 16/05/2015 08:02

So I'm on M3 at the mo... what would be better to ask for:::

M5
or
M4 plus TLR2a (small dept)???

I don't really just want M4 I'm guessing!

Thanks for the advice all. If I wanted to negotiate my salary I would have gone into a business related career!!

OP posts:

Original poster

thisismypassword · 16/05/2015 08:04

Just read your message Kinky -- thanks!

But I think if I've only been part of half a cycle it's harder to reach my targets and I'm at a disadvantage. I'll only have been observed once rather than 3 times for a start -- mainly due to SLT incompetency I might add.

OP posts:

KinkyDorito · 16/05/2015 12:16

M4 = TLR 2a is more money than M5 by a few hundred.

www.nasuwt.org.uk/consum/groups/public/@salariespensionsconditions/documents/nas_download/nasuwt_012874.pdf

Based on NOT London:

M5 = 29,829
M4 = bottom TLR 2 (2a) = 27,650 + 2,587 = 30,237

So, always take the TLR .

KinkyDorito · 16/05/2015 12:17

should be M4 + bottom TLR 2a

Original poster

thisismypassword · 16/05/2015 16:19

Excellent. I just realised I prob won't get a TLR because I'll only be working 3 days a week.

OP posts:

KinkyDorito · 16/05/2015 17:24

You get it pro-rata. You should definitely get one. Holding responsibility = paid for responsibility with a teaching and learning responsibility payment. If this is a TLR post for the person doing it now, it is a TLR post for you too.

m0therofdragons · 16/05/2015 17:30

My old school didn't do tlr for second in command as it helped their cv - I'm assuming that's not normal.

KinkyDorito · 16/05/2015 20:55

Loads try it mother . It's all about what will you take on to get promoted in teaching. I know, I'm the mug who usually agrees to all the extra stuff whilst other people roll their eyes at me...

However, if the job that this is applying for already has a TLR attached, she should most certainly be getting it and would be selling herself very short to agree anything less than that.

Flip